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Spiders Use Earth's Electric Field to Fly Hundreds of Miles (2018)

theatlantic.com

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Re: Spiders Use Earth's Electric Field to Fly Hundreds of Miles (2018)

#21

Post by pvaldes »

notpeter wrote: post #20
pvaldes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the term "citizen scientist" really annoying. Either you are a scientist or you aren't. If you do science you are a scientist. Point. No need to add any other adjetive. Science should not act like a club with first class and second class members.

> Either you are a scientist or you aren't. If you do science you are a scientist. Point. No need to add any other adjective. Science should not act like a club with first class and second class members. I hear you, but I'm curious why "citizen" sounds diminutive to your ear. Alternatives I've heard people use are "amatuer", "non-professional" or "backyard" scientist which all have a negative connotation to me. Hones…

Sounds right "citizen politician", "citizen journalist", "citizen dishwasher" or "citizen greengrocer"?. The opposite term to citizen is foreigner/immigrant. Should we start describing scientist in terms of foreigner and non-foreigner scientists? Related to where? The city that holds the headquarters of the scientific journal?

Lets call things by their name. Citizen scientists is just another euphemism for precariat.

Re: Spiders Use Earth's Electric Field to Fly Hundreds of Miles (2018)

#24

Post by justbaker »

jonshariat wrote: post #7
brighter2morrow wrote: post #2

>This idea—flight by electrostatic repulsion—was first proposed in the early 1800s, around the time of Darwin’s voyage. Peter Gorham, a physicist, resurrected the idea in 2013, and showed that it was mathematically plausible. And now, Morley and Robert have tested it with actual spiders. >First, they showed that spiders can detect electric fields. They put the arachnids on vertical strips of cardboard in the center o…

It's interesting that it also triggered their ballooning, the mad scientist in me wonders if you could create a big field over a large area (like your back yard) and trigger a mass exodus of spiders.

This mass-ballooning has occurred in Australia from the spiders fear of drowning from heavy rains.

In theory, your idea sounds plausible :)

Re: Spiders Use Earth's Electric Field to Fly Hundreds of Miles (2018)

#25

Post by dmix »

pvaldes wrote: post #19
mattnewton wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s useful to talk about people who are self funded/ directed vs people who are part of an institution like a corporation or university.

Why is this so necessary currently? Nobody describes Einstein as a citizen scientist even when its main contributions were self funded. Describing Darwin, Mendel or Tesla as citizen scientists would be plain ridiculous. Science is not a religion, is a tool.

It’s pretty informal. I believe you’re reading too far into it.

Like most words it covers an inexact group of things often relevant to the context it’s used. From the context we can understand ‘citizen scientist’ to mean some curious old/young person in their garage (not literally always their garage) doing it for fun. Which itself doesn’t have to exclude the professionals with a side project.

Re: Spiders Use Earth's Electric Field to Fly Hundreds of Miles (2018)

#26

Post by michaelmrose »

pvaldes wrote: post #6
brighter2morrow wrote: post #2

>This idea—flight by electrostatic repulsion—was first proposed in the early 1800s, around the time of Darwin’s voyage. Peter Gorham, a physicist, resurrected the idea in 2013, and showed that it was mathematically plausible. And now, Morley and Robert have tested it with actual spiders. >First, they showed that spiders can detect electric fields. They put the arachnids on vertical strips of cardboard in the center o…

I find the term "citizen scientist" really annoying. Either you are a scientist or you aren't. If you do science you are a scientist. Point. No need to add any other adjetive. Science should not act like a club with first class and second class members.

Science often requires if no other resource extensive time and it comes to pass people out there will pay you to invest your time in it only if you are a first class member as attested to by a degree and position. Most of the people who are indeed first class end up as first class members.

Citizen scientist seems to me to denote that one is actually a scientist despite lacking credentials unlike the 5000 other crackpots. To call someone who has no credentials a scientist would be misleading thus the term has utility and meaning.

Re: Spiders Use Earth's Electric Field to Fly Hundreds of Miles (2018)

#27

Post by Jim- »

More like a showerthought, but:

If arachnids are able to detect magnetic fields and react accordingly, are humans also able to do the same?

Anecdotally, I've always had people commenting on how their mood is down when it is storming outside, and that they feel a 'negative energy' that doesn't motivate them to do anything. So I wonder if there is a relation?

Re: Spiders Use Earth's Electric Field to Fly Hundreds of Miles (2018)

#28

Post by cwkoss »

Jim- wrote: post #27

More like a showerthought, but: If arachnids are able to detect magnetic fields and react accordingly, are humans also able to do the same? Anecdotally, I've always had people commenting on how their mood is down when it is storming outside, and that they feel a 'negative energy' that doesn't motivate them to do anything. So I wonder if there is a relation?

Veritasium has a possibly-relevant video on negative ions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ--scjcAZ4

Re: Spiders Use Earth's Electric Field to Fly Hundreds of Miles (2018)

#29

Post by marcosdumay »

moate wrote: post #17
marcosdumay wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a layman did the experiment on his garage, it would be completely (and insistently) ignored by the scientific community for many reasons (most of them good ones).

Why is that? If it's a properly conducted experiment with good documentation why do you think the larger scientific community would ignore this?

Yes, I do.

It's not published, it has no path to get into the attention of researchers. There's nothing a researcher can tell beforehand that says that all that documentation is high quality instead of just random trash. Laymen language does not align with academics ones. There are huge personal biases on every academic area.

This happens all the time, by the way.

Re: Spiders Use Earth's Electric Field to Fly Hundreds of Miles (2018)

#30

Post by pvaldes »

marcosdumay wrote: post #29
moate wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that? If it's a properly conducted experiment with good documentation why do you think the larger scientific community would ignore this?

Yes, I do. It's not published, it has no path to get into the attention of researchers. There's nothing a researcher can tell beforehand that says that all that documentation is high quality instead of just random trash. Laymen language does not align with academics ones. There are huge personal biases on every academic area. This happens all the time, by the way.

> Is not published,

Correct, but we are talking about it, somehow, and has been uploaded to internet, accessible from most countries of the planet, without restrictions at any time of day or night

> It has no path to get into the attention of researchers

maybe they could google it

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