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The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

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Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#21

Post by _ph_ »

keymone wrote: post #16
_ph_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things. A potatoe will feed you for a while. The value can vary - a potatoe farmer won't be hungry, so the value is to learn a living, a hungry person will value a potatoe very high. The price at each step in the chain between the farmer and the hungry person is determined by a lot of factors - distance and the scarcity vs. need at each point. Same…

> valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things do you seriously not see the circular nature of your argument? there is no "intrinsic value", there is only price at which a buyer meets a seller.

There are no infinite buyers and sellers. With intrinsic value I meant that there is something tangible you need or want. And the local supply of that thing. Which is determined by the effort of providing a thing. That is why beef in a farm town is cheaper than hundreds or thousands of miles away, as the whole chain of transportation and reselling adds cost.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#22

Post by lpellis »

This looks like something from Tron, trippy. The height of the block is the amount of BTC, there are some huge (thousands of BTC) transactions happening. On a semi related note, I built a 3D visualization (globe) to see where these blocks are geographically mined. https://coinminingstats.com/globe

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#23

Post by ignaloidas »

_ph_ wrote: post #19
ignaloidas wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't eat a dollar too. Intrinsic value of a dollar is smaller than a piece of paper, as it's not even that good for taking notes. It's valuation is the same: based on artificial demand.

The point of the dollar is, that it is backed by the United States of America. By the government the Federal Reserver Bank as the front line of setting and defending the value of the dollar. And by the whole US industry, which is trading their goods in dollars. That is the reason why modern currencies are generally valued vs. the gross domestic product of countries.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Federal Reserve hasn't been really backing the dollar. The gold is there, sure, but it isn't connected in any way with the value of dollar. The Federal Reserve surely doesn't have enough goods to back all of the dollars in circulation. The fact that US industry is trading by dollars doesn't change the matter. There are quite a few businesses that trade by bitcoin.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#24

Post by _ph_ »

simplecomplex wrote: post #15
_ph_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things. A potatoe will feed you for a while. The value can vary - a potatoe farmer won't be hungry, so the value is to learn a living, a hungry person will value a potatoe very high. The price at each step in the chain between the farmer and the hungry person is determined by a lot of factors - distance and the scarcity vs. need at each point. Same…

Valuations are not tied to intrinsic value... whatever that means. “Value” is measured by what someone paid. Nothing more, nothing less. If I buy an apple from you for $5, that means both of us valued the apple at $5. The end. To understand how meaningless the notion of intrinsic value is, ask yourself what the intrinsic value of water is? Drinking it? Bathing with it? Swimming in it? Cooking with it? Watering a gard…

Value certainly isn't something you can objetively tie to a fixed number. But water is a good example. It definitely has a value and this value nicely shows the basic mechanisms of economy. First of all, water supply differs strongly by region. Lots of water around the great lakes, little in Arizona. Ocean water is plentifull, but of little value due to the salt, which can be removed only very expensively. So the value of water depends on the distance from the next large water source. This is the reason, Arizona isn't the largest farm state - there is enough sun, but not enough cheap water.

Water for washing your car or watering your garden is relatively cheap, drinking water is not. Because for drinking water you need to get a cleaner source or spending effort to clean it. In many regions, tap water is perfect drinking water (and usually relatively expensive) in other regions not. Bottled water is yet more expensive because of the effort of bottling and transporting the bottled water. Of course you have effects like expensive French bottled water in the US, but that nonwithstanding bottled water is more expensive than tap water which is more expensive than river water.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#25

Post by keymone »

_ph_ wrote: post #21
keymone wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things do you seriously not see the circular nature of your argument? there is no "intrinsic value", there is only price at which a buyer meets a seller.

There are no infinite buyers and sellers. With intrinsic value I meant that there is something tangible you need or want. And the local supply of that thing. Which is determined by the effort of providing a thing. That is why beef in a farm town is cheaper than hundreds or thousands of miles away, as the whole chain of transportation and reselling adds cost.

> With intrinsic value I meant that there is something tangible you need or want

the whole idea of "intrinsic value" is that it is not tied to "needs and wants", because "needs and wants" is just another way of saying "market" and on a market there is only speculative value.

"intrinsic value" as a concept is used to derive valuation of a company based on it's assets, liabilities, etc - fundamentals, as opposed to market capitalization. taking the concept of intrinsic value out this context is meaningless because nothing in the universe has intrinsic value.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#26

Post by _ph_ »

ignaloidas wrote: post #23
_ph_ wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the dollar is, that it is backed by the United States of America. By the government the Federal Reserver Bank as the front line of setting and defending the value of the dollar. And by the whole US industry, which is trading their goods in dollars. That is the reason why modern currencies are generally valued vs. the gross domestic product of countries.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Federal Reserve hasn't been really backing the dollar. The gold is there, sure, but it isn't connected in any way with the value of dollar. The Federal Reserve surely doesn't have enough goods to back all of the dollars in circulation. The fact that US industry is trading by dollars doesn't change the matter. There are quite a few businesses that trade by bitcoin.

The dollar has not been backed by gold for a long time. It is backed by the Federal Reserve bank by the political power of the US and of course by the GDP of the US. Like with gold prices, there is quite some flexibility in the value of a currency, but that flexibility is contained in certain intervals because of the influence and the acting of the Federal Reserve bank. As long as the US doesn't default, the dollar has a value.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#27

Post by uoylj »

_ph_ wrote: post #18
mirimir wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You -- and lots of pesky Bitcoin speculators -- are missing the point. Bitcoin is currency. If it weren't for speculation, Bitcoin exchange rates with state-based currencies would be relatively stable. There's some deflation by design, but not enough to matter, unless you hoard. Exchange rate volatility is problematic. My solution is mainly to have more Bitcoin than I'd ever use, unless its value crashed. That works…

I think you misunderstood me. I am making the point that Bitcoin has basically no value. Its only value comes from the fact that currently enough people think it has a value. Like the million dollar homepage. Once the novelty has worn off, it could drop to 0 value.

A secure global ledger does have value though. At least it does to lots of people.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#28

Post by chungus »

H8crilA wrote: post #14
d3v wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that BTC does have intrinsic value. The cost of investment and electricity are a sizable portion the market value.

You've confused intrinsic value of X with the cost of building X. Let me illustrate with an example. A 1000 tonnes mountain of cow poo has near zero intrinsic value (perhaps even negative because it's a biohazard; people and government(s) are gonna get pissed and tell you to clean it up). That does not mean it didn't cost anything to create it, it was probably somewhat expensive to set up.

That much fertilizer could be sold for approximately $300.000
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