Live data from Hacker News

Ten Years of Erlang

ferd.ca

21–30 of 155 posts

Re: Ten Years of Erlang

#21
post #9

I love Erlang, and am one of the very few people who (in the past) managed to find work doing it full time. The actor paradigm it provides is surprisingly simple and elegant to write an app, even on a single node, and of course making distributed apps is fairly straightforward as a result of it. I have found that I like Lisp-Flavoured-Erlang (LFE) a bit more, since I still find the prolog-esque syntax a bit frustrati…

Not being facetious, but could the joy resemble the fun I associate with developing with Ruby?

If I understand you and OP correctly, it’s a kind of joy derived from doing something for a while, being acutely aware of the limitations and frustrations that come with it, and then discovering a brand new way of working that doesn’t involve any of the slog you’d grown accustomed to.

Speaking purely personally, mathematics has consistently been the discipline that’s delivered the most bang for my buck in that regard - learning a new branch can let you solve problems that are just impossible to solve, or take pages and pages of computation, in a few lines.

Re: Ten Years of Erlang

#22
Re: those infrastructure components written in Erlang not attracting Erlang users in any permanent way—it’s not so much that they have more users than contributors, but rather just the bare fact of them being infrastructure components. A black-box infrastructure component can’t be a “killer app” for a language.

Rails is a killer-app for Ruby because it’s a framework; a developer who uses Rails in their project is inherently a Ruby developer. People learned Ruby to use Rails.

But you don’t need to write a single line of Erlang to use CouchDB or Riak or Ejabberd. They’re self-contained. (And, in fact, scriptable in not-Erlang languages; CouchDB for example spawns and manages a JavaScript engine to run its “design documents” on.)

Thus, these infra components becoming popular doesn’t cause there to be any more Erlang programmers than there were before.

In that sense, I would say that Erlang has never had a true “killer app” yet. (Outside of a few specialized domains, like telecom and fintech, where the OTP platform itself is Erlang’s killer app.)

And even in the places where Erlang itself is a “killer app”, it’s also not so much a viral thing that the whole industry gets excited about; rather, Erlang is more of a “secret sauce.” Nobody’s learning Erlang in their basement because their friend told them it’d be the next big thing in their industry.

How does anyone learn Erlang, then? Well, usually, engineers are forced to learn Erlang at one job (where the system architect there decided on it); they get to liking it; and then, when they later become a system architect themselves in another job, and choose a stack, they choose Erlang, thus forcing a new wave of engineers to learn it.

Re: Ten Years of Erlang

#23
post #15
post #7

Fantastic article; it paints a great picture of the journey taken & accomplished achieved. My personal take is that the next major milestone for Erlang/Elixir will be a significantly more performance BEAM. Be it JIT or reworked Hipe. Elixir (& Phoenix) brought a ton of interest from the Ruby community. The only remaining aspect that would keep a Ruby developer using Ruby is the perf vs Erlang. Today, for many raw per…

I work with Ruby and Elixir daily and Elixir is 10x faster. Phoenix recently added functionality to display response times in microseconds, partially as a showcase for its good performance. I dont doubt you can get more performance in C++ or something but its still lighting compared to Ruby.

What Phoenix did to improve display response times that much?

Re: Ten Years of Erlang

#24
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being facetious, but could the joy resemble the fun I associate with developing with Ruby?

If I understand you and OP correctly, it’s a kind of joy derived from doing something for a while, being acutely aware of the limitations and frustrations that come with it, and then discovering a brand new way of working that doesn’t involve any of the slog you’d grown accustomed to. Speaking purely personally, mathematics has consistently been the discipline that’s delivered the most bang for my buck in that regard…

You did understand me correctly :).

I agree with mathematics; I came to the same conclusion about five years ago; I realized understanding some basic type theory made a whole lot of programming easier for me.

It's kind of dry reading, but I've been trying to get into different process calculi lately; specifically the Pi Calculus and Join Calculus, since these things feel like a cool hybrid of computer-science and mathematics.

Re: Ten Years of Erlang

#25
"But the vast majority of them will be a continuous flow of serial early adopters who surf from tech to tech, sniffing the best opportunity to gain a competitive advantage by being first to use a type of framework, language, or toolkit." - Oh god, that hit me so hard.

Re: Ten Years of Erlang

#27
post #22

Re: those infrastructure components written in Erlang not attracting Erlang users in any permanent way—it’s not so much that they have more users than contributors, but rather just the bare fact of them being infrastructure components. A black-box infrastructure component can’t be a “killer app” for a language. Rails is a killer-app for Ruby because it’s a framework ; a developer who uses Rails in their project is in…

I don't think this counts, but I imagine a significant portion of people learning today learn it because they are Elixir programmers.

Re: Ten Years of Erlang

#28
post #9

I love Erlang, and am one of the very few people who (in the past) managed to find work doing it full time. The actor paradigm it provides is surprisingly simple and elegant to write an app, even on a single node, and of course making distributed apps is fairly straightforward as a result of it. I have found that I like Lisp-Flavoured-Erlang (LFE) a bit more, since I still find the prolog-esque syntax a bit frustrati…

> I still occasionally get tripped up on when to do a comma, semicolon, or period occasionally

Those are affectionately called "ant turd tokens", because they're kind of small and it's easy to miss which one is which, especially when moving code around.

I got to work with Erlang professionally a few years back, and miss it in a lot of ways.

Re: Ten Years of Erlang

#29
post #22

Re: those infrastructure components written in Erlang not attracting Erlang users in any permanent way—it’s not so much that they have more users than contributors, but rather just the bare fact of them being infrastructure components. A black-box infrastructure component can’t be a “killer app” for a language. Rails is a killer-app for Ruby because it’s a framework ; a developer who uses Rails in their project is in…

Agreed. This is actually why I think the killer apps for the BEAM are 2 Elixir based ones.

Nerves, which is already being heavily used for embedded systems and only getting stronger thanks to the likes of Scenic.

And Phoenix LiveView (not released yet), which I personally think pulls the strengths of Phoenix together in a way that can truly disrupt web development. It’s very difficult to do what LiveView is doing on other tech stacks.

The combination of those two will likely fuel things long term.

Re: Ten Years of Erlang

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cleaner syntax, macros and a whole lot of developer productivity focused tooling.

Disagree with “cleaner”.

Disagree with "disagree"

...see where that leads us? Please actually voice reasons how it's not cleaner, as it's most definitely less verbose, And having less clutter is generally seen as cleaner

Post reply on HN