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SkySails

en.wikipedia.org

21–30 of 46 posts

Re: SkySails

#21
post #13
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can save up to 20% in fuel, you bet they would try it.

They won't, because the cost of fuel is passed to the shipper, not whoever owns the boat. If shell owned and operated their own boats, maybe, but I haven't seen that.

Competitive efficiency- if their competition implements it they will be under pressure to implement it and cut rates or lose volume to the competition who is using the sky kite to reduce fuel costs and undercut the competition

Re: SkySails

#22

This is super cool, but until cargo vessels have any sort of restrictions on their carbon emissions, I hardly see this being adopted. We're on track to burn 500 million tonnes of Bunker oil by 2020 and the EU is just _proposing_ some sulfur and nitrogen reduction standards. Without any international restrictions or some other factor to increase the cost of operating, what incentive are companies going to have to adop…

Since half of your comment is plainly wrong, all I'll bother with is asking you to inform yourself. Here's a good start: http://www.imo.org/en/mediacentre/hottopics/pages/sulphur-20...

Re: SkySails

#23
post #9

It would be extremely ironic if this would be use by an oil tanker. Jokes aside, this is great, but it will never be the primary mode of propulsion since those tankers are on a timeline and you can't predict wind as much as a combustion engine.

This sort of argument gets used against all sorts of renewables. It doesn't have to be about replacing 100% of energy usage with renewables with zero compromises. If you can slap a kite on a cargo ship and save 10-20% of fuel costs, why wouldn't you? If the wind dies down you can still motor along just like you did before.

Best is the enemy of good, and perfect is the enemy of possible.

Re: SkySails

#24
post #8

Kind of a dumb question but I'll ask anyway. If the wind is blowing in the exact same direction as the ship is travelling and you begin to retract the sail - do you recoup some of the energy you use during this retraction process through increased pulling power of the sail? Is the ship being pulled a little stronger during the retraction process or the exact same amount as if the line wasn't being retracted? Im imagi…

Depends on the speed at which you reel it in but I can't see it being hugely significant. You would, however, recoup that energy when reeling the kite out again if the winch has regenerative braking (assuming the wind speed is constant).

If the wind speed isn't constant then you could save power by only reeling the kite in when the wind slacks off. If you felt especially proactive you could generate power by reeling it out during gusts then back in during lulls.

Re: SkySails

#25
post #22

This is super cool, but until cargo vessels have any sort of restrictions on their carbon emissions, I hardly see this being adopted. We're on track to burn 500 million tonnes of Bunker oil by 2020 and the EU is just _proposing_ some sulfur and nitrogen reduction standards. Without any international restrictions or some other factor to increase the cost of operating, what incentive are companies going to have to adop…

Since half of your comment is plainly wrong, all I'll bother with is asking you to inform yourself. Here's a good start: http://www.imo.org/en/mediacentre/hottopics/pages/sulphur-20...

Oh wow thanks! I thought this was still being proposed but I was reading Wikipedia. Cool that the sulfur reductions are in place, but that's still not going to affect co2 emissions, and because these rules apply - lets assume equally - to all ships it doesn't necessarily impact the economics. If the sail really reduces the cost by the stated amount minus the caveat at the bottom of the article that would be impressive.

Re: SkySails

#26

This is super cool, but until cargo vessels have any sort of restrictions on their carbon emissions, I hardly see this being adopted. We're on track to burn 500 million tonnes of Bunker oil by 2020 and the EU is just _proposing_ some sulfur and nitrogen reduction standards. Without any international restrictions or some other factor to increase the cost of operating, what incentive are companies going to have to adop…

Because it would save money, presumably. For example, in a 10,000 ton boat: "While the kite was in use, the ship saved an estimated 10-15% fuel, $1,000 to $1,500 per day." (From the linked article)

[deleted]

Re: SkySails

#27
post #8

Kind of a dumb question but I'll ask anyway. If the wind is blowing in the exact same direction as the ship is travelling and you begin to retract the sail - do you recoup some of the energy you use during this retraction process through increased pulling power of the sail? Is the ship being pulled a little stronger during the retraction process or the exact same amount as if the line wasn't being retracted? Im imagi…

There are designs for wind power generation based on kites that work like that.

You basically let the kite fall, then use its pull to generate energy and make it soar, then let it fall again..

Re: SkySails

#29
They said a limitation in addition is;

"There’s a structural problem slowing down the process: ship owners (who have to make the investment) often don’t pay for the fuel – that’s the charterer’s duty. The charterer on the other side doesn’t charter the ship for long enough a period to make low-carbon technologies pay back"

I know bugger all about shipping but this doesn't seem logical. Wouldn't the person hiring said boat look at the estimated fuel cost as part of their cost/quote? If they know a ship has this or other effeciency features it should become part of their pricing comparison to alternate ships.

Re: SkySails

#30

They said a limitation in addition is; "There’s a structural problem slowing down the process: ship owners (who have to make the investment) often don’t pay for the fuel – that’s the charterer’s duty. The charterer on the other side doesn’t charter the ship for long enough a period to make low-carbon technologies pay back" I know bugger all about shipping but this doesn't seem logical. Wouldn't the person hiring said…

Exactly. If the charterer has to pay less fuel for your ship because you put a kite on it, surely they will choose your ship over others? Is there no competition in this market or why does fundamental market principles seemingly not apply?
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