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FreeDOS's Linux Roots

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Re: FreeDOS's Linux Roots

#21

Post by vocatus_gate »

Something1234 wrote: post #14

What can I do that is moderately interesting with freedos? I've downloaded it a couple of times, but I never found anything useful to do with it. I'm sure I could play some games, or something. I really want to actually learn it.

DOSBox is a better option, if you have any interest in playing really old DOS games (Captain Comic, Commander Keen, Descent, etc) on a modern system. As far as running FreeDOS...it's a cool exercise in preserving compatibility for historical systems, but for the average PC enthusiast....doesn't offer much beyond that.

Proceed with the pitchforks and stake burning.

Re: FreeDOS's Linux Roots

#22

Post by vocatus_gate »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #15
Something1234 wrote: post #14

What can I do that is moderately interesting with freedos? I've downloaded it a couple of times, but I never found anything useful to do with it. I'm sure I could play some games, or something. I really want to actually learn it.

I legitimately needed to use freeDOS a few months ago in order to downgrade the firmware on my BluRay drive, so I'd be able to rip 4K discs. It could only be done from DOS.

Wait...I have a legitimate question (was about to post some snarky comment but now I'm wondering).

WHY did you need DOS??? Use an XP VM? Some sort of Linux emulator? Flashing the firmware on a device manufactured long after the existence of DOS had been forgotten for most major hardware producers...

so many questions!

Re: FreeDOS's Linux Roots

#23

Post by vocatus_gate »

jamesgeck0 wrote: post #17
Something1234 wrote: post #14

What can I do that is moderately interesting with freedos? I've downloaded it a couple of times, but I never found anything useful to do with it. I'm sure I could play some games, or something. I really want to actually learn it.

You can compute like a PC user in the 1980s. There are various word processors, database utilities, and programming languages available. There are even old school networking tools for newsreading, IRC, telnet, and gopher. I remember "DOS for Dummies" (the seminal Dummies book) being helpful when I was starting out; you can probably find a used copy for the cost of shipping at this point.

"butwhy.gif"

Re: FreeDOS's Linux Roots

#24

Post by vocatus_gate »

scottjg wrote: post #13
mixmastamyk wrote: post #11

How does freedos handle newer hardware? I remember giving up on my super DOS boot disc about a decade+ ago when it wouldn't boot anymore. If memory serves it was around the end of IDE drives, but I could be wrong. Maybe it had to do with EFI.

FreeDOS, like MSDOS, relies on BIOS calls to control the hardware. Most PCs aren't pure EFI-only and can still boot with some BIOS compatibility, but of course not all of the BIOS implementations are bug-free. When legacy BIOS compatibility is truly dead, I guess DOS will die with it.

I would assume...(guess?) that FreeDOS will continue to exist in VM's to support extremely old industrial control systems (for example, one of the major dairy plants in my hometown of Phoenix, which still uses [last I checked, 2016] software running in a VM on actual DOS). Beyond that however, maybe outside of educational scenarios, I can't see it sticking around much longer as the move to pure EFI continues full steam.

Re: FreeDOS's Linux Roots

#25

Post by vertex-four »

vocatus_gate wrote: post #22
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I legitimately needed to use freeDOS a few months ago in order to downgrade the firmware on my BluRay drive, so I'd be able to rip 4K discs. It could only be done from DOS.

Wait...I have a legitimate question (was about to post some snarky comment but now I'm wondering). WHY did you need DOS??? Use an XP VM? Some sort of Linux emulator? Flashing the firmware on a device manufactured long after the existence of DOS had been forgotten for most major hardware producers... so many questions!

There’s a lot of firmware flashing stuff that runs on DOS, because it’s easier to have direct access to hardware without the OS trying to access that hardware simultaneously.

The alternative is correctly disabling the device under Windows/Linux/whatever, flashing the firmware, and re-enabling it, which is a process likely to have bugs and potentially result in bricking the device. Modern operating systems are big and constantly doing things in the background that may interfere with the firmware flashing process.

Re: FreeDOS's Linux Roots

#26

Post by mey »

jamesgeck0 wrote: post #19
mey wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you want to work specifically with FreeDOS, you might look at DOSBox instead. It's a MS-DOS emulator that runs in user space, rather than running as the OS, thus a lower barrier to entry.

The utilities provided by FreeDOS are generally more complete than those provided by DOSBox. You can copy them into your DOSBox installation for the best of both worlds.

https://github.com/microsoft/ms-dos may also be interesting

Re: FreeDOS's Linux Roots

#27

Post by jdboyd »

scottjg wrote: post #13
mixmastamyk wrote: post #11

How does freedos handle newer hardware? I remember giving up on my super DOS boot disc about a decade+ ago when it wouldn't boot anymore. If memory serves it was around the end of IDE drives, but I could be wrong. Maybe it had to do with EFI.

FreeDOS, like MSDOS, relies on BIOS calls to control the hardware. Most PCs aren't pure EFI-only and can still boot with some BIOS compatibility, but of course not all of the BIOS implementations are bug-free. When legacy BIOS compatibility is truly dead, I guess DOS will die with it.

I suspect that when we get computers that are pure EFI and completely free of legacy BIOS, it will be possible to use something like SeaBIOS to continue to add back BIOS compatibility for use with tools like FreeDOS.

Re: FreeDOS's Linux Roots

#28

Post by farmerbb »

jdboyd wrote: post #27
scottjg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FreeDOS, like MSDOS, relies on BIOS calls to control the hardware. Most PCs aren't pure EFI-only and can still boot with some BIOS compatibility, but of course not all of the BIOS implementations are bug-free. When legacy BIOS compatibility is truly dead, I guess DOS will die with it.

I suspect that when we get computers that are pure EFI and completely free of legacy BIOS, it will be possible to use something like SeaBIOS to continue to add back BIOS compatibility for use with tools like FreeDOS.

I've tried booting FreeDOS on my Chromebook with SeaBIOS installed, and it just does not handle it well. The system will completely lock up when running most programs or even just by hitting the Tab key. FreeDOS doesn't even boot unless I have it skip loading AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS on startup.

Re: FreeDOS's Linux Roots

#29

Post by londons_explore »

vertex-four wrote: post #25
vocatus_gate wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait...I have a legitimate question (was about to post some snarky comment but now I'm wondering). WHY did you need DOS??? Use an XP VM? Some sort of Linux emulator? Flashing the firmware on a device manufactured long after the existence of DOS had been forgotten for most major hardware producers... so many questions!

There’s a lot of firmware flashing stuff that runs on DOS, because it’s easier to have direct access to hardware without the OS trying to access that hardware simultaneously. The alternative is correctly disabling the device under Windows/Linux/whatever, flashing the firmware, and re-enabling it, which is a process likely to have bugs and potentially result in bricking the device. Modern operating systems are big and…

Even DOS doesn't work for most modern hardware. Can't have direct blueray drive access if there is no way to initialize the SATA controller...

Re: FreeDOS's Linux Roots

#30

Post by AshamedCaptain »

londons_explore wrote: post #29
vertex-four wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a lot of firmware flashing stuff that runs on DOS, because it’s easier to have direct access to hardware without the OS trying to access that hardware simultaneously. The alternative is correctly disabling the device under Windows/Linux/whatever, flashing the firmware, and re-enabling it, which is a process likely to have bugs and potentially result in bricking the device. Modern operating systems are big and…

Even DOS doesn't work for most modern hardware. Can't have direct blueray drive access if there is no way to initialize the SATA controller...

The BIOS does it for you.
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