The Simple Genius of Checklists • Hacker News Board

Re: The Simple Genius of Checklists

#21

Post by DocTomoe » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 1:58 PM UTC

supahfly_remix wrote: post #11

ncmncm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took three generations of flight training for checklists to become an essential part of aviation. Note that a flight-training generation is less than a human reproductive generation; it's the time from first lesson taken to first lesson taught (plus some). It had to wait for the older instructors to retire. We are still in transition, in medicine. Many physicians have not yet cottoned to hand-washing, yet.

> Many physicians have not yet cottoned to hand-washing, yet. What?!? How many generations has it been since Louis Pasteur?

Actually, Ignaz Semmelweis.

And about 150 years, so 4-5 generations of surgeons. Not exactly many.

Re: The Simple Genius of Checklists

#22

Post by subhro » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

efa wrote: post #16

I really enjoyed http://atulgawande.com/book/the-checklist-manifesto/ . Very interesting and at times frustrating. You ask yourself why more hospitals can't implement success described in this book.

Very good book. This book came to my mind the moment I saw this post.

Re: The Simple Genius of Checklists

#23

Post by RedNifre » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:22 PM UTC

Can anybody recommend a good checklist app for Android? When I search for "checklist" I only find ToDo-List apps that call themselves "checklist" app.

What I'd like is something where you can set a per-checklist timeout after which the list resets everything to unchecked and maybe allow two different ways to view each checklist (or modes): 1. All at once with little check marks that you can check in any order 2. Strictly ordered checklists where you only see the current task and check it to get to the next, ideally with a "3/14" indicator or progress bar to know how far you've got through the checklist.

Which apps can you recommend?

Re: The Simple Genius of Checklists

#24

Post by euler_angles » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:29 PM UTC

ncmncm wrote: post #8

euler_angles wrote: post #6

I have been a flight test and rocket test engineer. Checklists were life, especially in the rocket world. The fantastic thing about checklists is that they both keep you accountable and free your mental resources so that when something happens that one of your checklists don't cover, you know you've at least tried all the sane/expected things. I personally found that backstop freeing and allowed me to use my creativi…

It took three generations of flight training for checklists to become an essential part of aviation. Note that a flight-training generation is less than a human reproductive generation; it's the time from first lesson taken to first lesson taught (plus some). It had to wait for the older instructors to retire. We are still in transition, in medicine. Many physicians have not yet cottoned to hand-washing, yet.

Maybe -- and this is just my own opinion/speculation -- this is because in my lines of work, the results of failing to follow a checklist can be at worst catastrophic and relatively immediate. In medicine, some classes of failures might be more subtle and harder to notice.

Anyone with medical knowledge, feel free to inform me if that idea is totally off-base.

Re: The Simple Genius of Checklists

#25

Post by jerf » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

euler_angles wrote: post #24

ncmncm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took three generations of flight training for checklists to become an essential part of aviation. Note that a flight-training generation is less than a human reproductive generation; it's the time from first lesson taken to first lesson taught (plus some). It had to wait for the older instructors to retire. We are still in transition, in medicine. Many physicians have not yet cottoned to hand-washing, yet.

Maybe -- and this is just my own opinion/speculation -- this is because in my lines of work, the results of failing to follow a checklist can be at worst catastrophic and relatively immediate. In medicine, some classes of failures might be more subtle and harder to notice. Anyone with medical knowledge, feel free to inform me if that idea is totally off-base.

Also in medicine, it's often not the practitioner who suffers the consequences, which even if we ignore the moral aspects, means the feedback loop isn't closed tightly, making learning more difficult.

Re: The Simple Genius of Checklists

#26

Post by Waterluvian » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

RedNifre wrote: post #23

Can anybody recommend a good checklist app for Android? When I search for "checklist" I only find ToDo-List apps that call themselves "checklist" app. What I'd like is something where you can set a per-checklist timeout after which the list resets everything to unchecked and maybe allow two different ways to view each checklist (or modes): 1. All at once with little check marks that you can check in any order 2. Stri…

This sounds like a fun afternoon project for a web or mobile dev.

If nobody replies with a quality app that does this, I'm going to make it for myself and share it here.

Re: The Simple Genius of Checklists

#27

Post by rmbryan » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

I've invested enough time in a personal checklist for a daily process to get to the point where I feel like the checklist is "helpful", "minimal" and "complete". If I had a printer, I would print out a stack of them and record my compliance on paper. I don't have a printer, and I'm not buying one just for this. What's the electronic equivalent for recording checklist compliance?

Re: The Simple Genius of Checklists

#28

Post by dvtrn » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

RedNifre wrote: post #23

Can anybody recommend a good checklist app for Android? When I search for "checklist" I only find ToDo-List apps that call themselves "checklist" app. What I'd like is something where you can set a per-checklist timeout after which the list resets everything to unchecked and maybe allow two different ways to view each checklist (or modes): 1. All at once with little check marks that you can check in any order 2. Stri…

Trello can do this repeating checklist to an extent, and it has the progress bar that shows on cards as you complete items.

https://blog.trello.com/trello-card-repeater

Re: The Simple Genius of Checklists

#29

Post by blunte » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:52 PM UTC

But where does one begin to identify the parts of life where a checklist would reduce cognitive load?

In IT, some cases are obvious (such as deploying new releases). However, if a process is so repeatable that you could have an accurate checklist, then you could probably automate the process and eliminate the need for the checklist.

I would love to know what parts of my life I could relegate to checklists so I could free my mind to focus on just the things that I excel at...

Re: The Simple Genius of Checklists

#30

Post by blunte » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

rkangel wrote: post #7

I cannot recommend this book enough. It is a great read due to good writing and interesting case studies, and the underlying message is immensely valuable.

Would it help me identify when checklists would be effective, and then how to build a useful checklist?

Or is it more about why checklists are good?