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How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

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Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#21

Post by yters »

kjeetgill wrote: post #18
yters wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if it is 'rap music' violence, madness, drug use, rape, etc. are fine, because if you say otherwise you are racist. Maybe it is racist to not hold all human beings to the same standard of decency?

The key difference is that the Punk subculture sprung up around the music, where much of the 'rap music' was reflective (exaggerated and glamorized) of an existing situation and subculture. I think you can still argue that violent rap music incites or inspires crime though. I think you can generally criticize effects, but you skirt the line with racism when you start projecting that too broadly.

I don't see the difference. Rap music seems to go hand in hand with the subculture. If it wasn't glamorized, I doubt it'd exist, at least to the degree it does. Same with punk. If the punk lifestyle was not glamorized through the music, then the punk subculture would not exist.

My point is that it is racist to not hold all people to the same moral standard, because in effect we are saying those we do not hold accountable are not capable.

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#22

Post by jhbadger »

gcbw2 wrote: post #14

N.B. it has some confusing passages to people that doesn't know L.A. very well. e.g. "Chinese immigrants had started moving to suburban enclaves like the San Gabriel Valley, bypassing Chinatown and its businesses completely" and then proceed to tell an anecdote from a restaurant in the very heart of downtown chinatown.

But that was the point of the passage -- downtown Chinatown restaurants started renting out to punk concerts because the suburban migration was depriving them of customers.

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#23

Post by PhasmaFelis »

mistrial9 wrote: post #16

the punks were certainly the most health-toxic sub-culture in post-hippy California.. definitely early pain-killer abusers, plus glue or extreme alcohol, etc. not uncommon to hear of deaths, treachery or jail.. SF Fab-Mab ruler Dirk was later found to be sexually using adolescents pretty regularly .. lead singer of Fang on America's Most Wanted national TV for killing a girl over heroin, things like that .. freedom h…

I don't remember punk lyrics focusing on drugs and violence any more than mainstream rock did. (Which, admittedly, was also blamed for those things.) Which bands/songs are you thinking of? I'm assuming you have some in mind, and aren't just parroting stereotypes?

Also, are you sure you've got the cause-and-effect right way 'round? Delinquents do seem to like punk, but that doesn't mean that punk made them delinquent.

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#25

Post by germanlee »

mistrial9 wrote: post #16

the punks were certainly the most health-toxic sub-culture in post-hippy California.. definitely early pain-killer abusers, plus glue or extreme alcohol, etc. not uncommon to hear of deaths, treachery or jail.. SF Fab-Mab ruler Dirk was later found to be sexually using adolescents pretty regularly .. lead singer of Fang on America's Most Wanted national TV for killing a girl over heroin, things like that .. freedom h…

More of the neverending pro-censorship authoritarian journalistic nanny-style comments.

If what you said was true, violent crime wouldn't be dropping so precipitously.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-...

In the era of violent games, gangsta rap, neverending wars, etc, violent crime is dropping.

But you are correct. Freedom has a price. That's what makes freedom so valuable. People have the freedom to make mistakes.

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#26

Post by oarabbus_ »

yters wrote: post #21
kjeetgill wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key difference is that the Punk subculture sprung up around the music, where much of the 'rap music' was reflective (exaggerated and glamorized) of an existing situation and subculture. I think you can still argue that violent rap music incites or inspires crime though. I think you can generally criticize effects, but you skirt the line with racism when you start projecting that too broadly.

I don't see the difference. Rap music seems to go hand in hand with the subculture. If it wasn't glamorized, I doubt it'd exist, at least to the degree it does. Same with punk. If the punk lifestyle was not glamorized through the music, then the punk subculture would not exist. My point is that it is racist to not hold all people to the same moral standard, because in effect we are saying those we do not hold account…

You are abysmally misinformed on the history of hip hop.

>My point is that it is racist to not hold all people to the same moral standard,

Ah, in that case you agree that _every_ American slaveowner in the South was a bad, immoral, evil person, right? Same goes for all Germans in WWII.

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#27

Post by eric_the_read »

yters wrote: post #21
kjeetgill wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key difference is that the Punk subculture sprung up around the music, where much of the 'rap music' was reflective (exaggerated and glamorized) of an existing situation and subculture. I think you can still argue that violent rap music incites or inspires crime though. I think you can generally criticize effects, but you skirt the line with racism when you start projecting that too broadly.

I don't see the difference. Rap music seems to go hand in hand with the subculture. If it wasn't glamorized, I doubt it'd exist, at least to the degree it does. Same with punk. If the punk lifestyle was not glamorized through the music, then the punk subculture would not exist. My point is that it is racist to not hold all people to the same moral standard, because in effect we are saying those we do not hold account…

Chap-hop star Mr B, The Gentleman Rhymer, wrote "Hip-Hop Was To Blame, After All", specifically addressing this attitude: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkES4anCYOw

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#28

Post by [deleted] »

germanlee wrote: post #25
mistrial9 wrote: post #16

the punks were certainly the most health-toxic sub-culture in post-hippy California.. definitely early pain-killer abusers, plus glue or extreme alcohol, etc. not uncommon to hear of deaths, treachery or jail.. SF Fab-Mab ruler Dirk was later found to be sexually using adolescents pretty regularly .. lead singer of Fang on America's Most Wanted national TV for killing a girl over heroin, things like that .. freedom h…

More of the neverending pro-censorship authoritarian journalistic nanny-style comments. If what you said was true, violent crime wouldn't be dropping so precipitously. https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-... In the era of violent games, gangsta rap, neverending wars, etc, violent crime is dropping. But you are correct. Freedom has a price. That's what makes freedom so valuable. People have the…

[deleted]

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#29

Post by coding123 »

germanlee wrote: post #25
mistrial9 wrote: post #16

the punks were certainly the most health-toxic sub-culture in post-hippy California.. definitely early pain-killer abusers, plus glue or extreme alcohol, etc. not uncommon to hear of deaths, treachery or jail.. SF Fab-Mab ruler Dirk was later found to be sexually using adolescents pretty regularly .. lead singer of Fang on America's Most Wanted national TV for killing a girl over heroin, things like that .. freedom h…

More of the neverending pro-censorship authoritarian journalistic nanny-style comments. If what you said was true, violent crime wouldn't be dropping so precipitously. https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-... In the era of violent games, gangsta rap, neverending wars, etc, violent crime is dropping. But you are correct. Freedom has a price. That's what makes freedom so valuable. People have the…

Here is the price - specifically:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_ra...

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#30

Post by noonespecial »

mistrial9 wrote: post #16

the punks were certainly the most health-toxic sub-culture in post-hippy California.. definitely early pain-killer abusers, plus glue or extreme alcohol, etc. not uncommon to hear of deaths, treachery or jail.. SF Fab-Mab ruler Dirk was later found to be sexually using adolescents pretty regularly .. lead singer of Fang on America's Most Wanted national TV for killing a girl over heroin, things like that .. freedom h…

Or maybe they're just violent and mad so they sing about it.
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