Open Source Could Be a Casualty of the Trade War • Hacker News Board

Re: Open Source Could Be a Casualty of the Trade War

#21

Post by downrightmike » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 6:57 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #17

ISL wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, there is a bulwark: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. The bulwark defending the bulwark is the population.

Good luck explaining your commits to that munitions grade crypto used by terror cells in the mideast region as "Free Speech". Hope that works out for you. :-( (I'd wager there'll be a few more Snowden types asking for asylum outside the US before this is all over.)

Already holds up: "The claimed principle was simple: export of munitions—guns, bombs, planes, and software—was (and remains) restricted; but the export of books is protected by the First Amendment. The question was never tested in court with respect to PGP. In cases addressing other encryption software, however, two federal appeals courts have established the rule that cryptographic software source code is speech protected by the First Amendment (the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in the Bernstein case and the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals in the Junger case). " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy

Re: Open Source Could Be a Casualty of the Trade War

#22

Post by Drdrdrq » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 7:15 PM UTC

unionpivo wrote: post #20

spacemanmatt wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every company considering a deal with Trump should consider that America has walked away from shitty deals before. Sometimes it just takes a little while.

\s It just has to last long enough for executives to cash in their bonuses.

I know that was sarcasm, but I don't think it applies to Apple. Their managers seem to be employed long-term and they seem to be loyal.

Re: Open Source Could Be a Casualty of the Trade War

#23

Post by cududa » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 7:15 PM UTC

slim wrote: post #18

why is ARM doing business with Huawei? they don't manufacture their SOCs or do they?

Huawei licenses the ARM instruction set and some architecture components. If it’s a mobile processor, at the very least it’s going to license ARM instructions

Re: Open Source Could Be a Casualty of the Trade War

#24

Post by jakobegger » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 7:44 PM UTC

butteroverflow wrote: post #11

blihp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open Source effectively is out of America or any other single jurisdiction: think of all of the people who have up to date copies of virtually every package all around the world. If the U.S. were to say tomorrow, as we used to do with cryptography, that (certain types of) software can't be shared outside of the U.S., the development of said (Open Source) software would likely just be taken over by groups outside the…

I believe the majority of FOSS developers reside in the US. You can't really pipe them out through a fiber channel.

The majority of FOSS developers I know reside in Europe, but that may be just because I am from Europe.

Re: Open Source Could Be a Casualty of the Trade War

#25

Post by writepub » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 8:06 PM UTC

> If Huawei has truly engaged in a long-term pattern of conduct significantly adverse to national security, surely, some independent security research would have already found and published a paper

Presenting non sequitur as evidence has become par for the course. Let's step back to one day before the heartbleed bug was discovered in ssl libs, when a similar argument could've been made regarding the ssl library's security. Only to be disproven a day later.

Re: Open Source Could Be a Casualty of the Trade War

#26

Post by SomeOldThrow » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 9:19 PM UTC

ISL wrote: post #5

cyborgx7 wrote: post #2

The article takes a while to get to the point made in the title but the way to counteract this seems to be, get the infrastructure for open source out of America before it's too late. In contrast to the ARM example, the US doesn't really have any leverage against a volunteer open source project not within its borders.

Fortunately, there is a bulwark: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. The bulwark defending the bulwark is the population.

I wish I shared your optimism.

Re: Open Source Could Be a Casualty of the Trade War

#27

Post by DennisP » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 9:25 PM UTC

Considering that two U.S. appeals courts have ruled that source code which was classed as a munition was protected by the First Amendment, I'm not too worried just yet.

Of course we have a lot of new judges so who knows.

Re: Open Source Could Be a Casualty of the Trade War

#28

Post by mc32 » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 9:58 PM UTC

DennisP wrote: post #27

Considering that two U.S. appeals courts have ruled that source code which was classed as a munition was protected by the First Amendment, I'm not too worried just yet. Of course we have a lot of new judges so who knows.

True, but aren’t conservative judges (not Joe and Jill public) apt to be more liberal in the interpretation of the 1A?

Re: Open Source Could Be a Casualty of the Trade War

#29

Post by StudentStuff » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 9:59 PM UTC

DennisP wrote: post #27

Considering that two U.S. appeals courts have ruled that source code which was classed as a munition was protected by the First Amendment, I'm not too worried just yet. Of course we have a lot of new judges so who knows.

Bunnie seems to fear this type of IP restriction but with regard to closed source chipset designs and proprietary hardware, which he views as key to continued innovation in China.

I have met Bunnie, and he has a bit of a warped view of the world. I think it caused him to gloss over things like https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/03/28/hcsec_huawei_oversi... where Huawei did not give a single shit about security in their cellular basestation codebase.

Sure, Huawei will read CVEs and sometimes deal with them, but really basic things like updating OpenSSL libraries seem near impossible for Huawei. Their hardware is thus vulnerable to exploitation by any ill intentioned person wandering by :c

Part of this is the whole stolen codebase problem, where Huawei (as Nortel's Chinese manufacturing partner) took their designs and code, without fully understanding them. They've been able to tack on a lot of neat stuff, but the underlying architecture is still not understood by their engineers.

Re: Open Source Could Be a Casualty of the Trade War

#30

Post by the_pwner224 » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 10:02 PM UTC

StudentStuff wrote: post #29

DennisP wrote: post #27

Considering that two U.S. appeals courts have ruled that source code which was classed as a munition was protected by the First Amendment, I'm not too worried just yet. Of course we have a lot of new judges so who knows.

Bunnie seems to fear this type of IP restriction but with regard to closed source chipset designs and proprietary hardware, which he views as key to continued innovation in China. I have met Bunnie, and he has a bit of a warped view of the world. I think it caused him to gloss over things like https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/03/28/hcsec_huawei_oversi... where Huawei did not give a single shit about security in the…

And so is so much other US-produced or maintained hardware. Do we now ban outdated corporate websites which can be hacked and used to launch attacks on other servers?

The Huawei ban is very clearly a political anti-China move, not one based on technical reasons.