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US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

theguardian.com

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Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#21

Post by simion314 »

josefresco wrote: post #4

Just because Assange did one (or more) good things (Collateral Murder) does not make everything else he does, also good. Assange is not a journalist, and ceased being a journalist when he decided to enforce personal agendas and arguably work with nation-states to harm other nation-states. Even if you believe he's a journalist, journalists should not be above the law even if part of their work is for the good of the p…

You accuse him again of working with other countries, first of all there is no proof, second if I I am not an US citizen why should be bad for me to work for say China and publish Trump/Hillary emails.

Then finally he is accused because he promised to look into how to crack some passwords, the accusations are very weak and the result will be similar to the result of the "Saddam chemical weapons", aka US will decide that he won'ts you then some pretext will be created and then the propaganda will start to justify the pretext.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#22

Post by nkozyra »

magwa101 wrote: post #15

Title response, no it's not.

This is reductive and not particularly useful. If the dissemination of information in this way is itself criminalized it puts shackles on the media's abilities to provide insight into the inner workings of the government.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#23

Post by simion314 »

ANPEQ-1 wrote: post #8
josefresco wrote: post #4

Just because Assange did one (or more) good things (Collateral Murder) does not make everything else he does, also good. Assange is not a journalist, and ceased being a journalist when he decided to enforce personal agendas and arguably work with nation-states to harm other nation-states. Even if you believe he's a journalist, journalists should not be above the law even if part of their work is for the good of the p…

Thank you. There is such thing as legitimate secrets. The threat of jail for wholesale and thoughtless release of top secret information... is a good threat. Professional journalists know this and shouldn't jump on the Assange bandwagon; they understand that their power comes a duty of care.

If I am a non US journalist why should be illegal for me to publish an US secret especially war crimes and not weapon or defense designs ?

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#24

Post by syn0byte »

ryanmercer wrote: post #3

There's a pretty big difference between: 'free media' and 'doxing individuals who's identities were protected because if they are publicly revealed not only are their lives at serious risk but it also exposes their close family and friends to rape/murder/torture until a time at which they are found and violently murdered because terrorists and hostile governments actually do this sort of thing to their perceived enem…

The irony in your argument is absolutely breath taking. The footage of the US Military murdering a dozen people, of which 2 worked for the press, was part of leaks for which he now faces charges.

"How dare he show the US murdering journalists! That could lead to more journalist getting murdered."

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#25

Post by jstewartmobile »

blub wrote: post #14
mc32 wrote: post #6

I wish people would just focus on the part that regards journalism, free press, free speech, sources and releasing leaked information. All the rest will fall along political lines. Liked or disliked for the effects on political allies and foes. It’s obvious if you have followed this case. Three years ago the right loathed him, today they love him and conversely today the left loathes him but 3 years ago they loved hi…

The implications are grim. Governments worldwide are tightening the screws, becoming more secretive and spying extensively on their citizens. Voting doesn't work, as most parties support this encroachment on civil liberties in the name of fighting various evils. I don't have any solutions and little hope. In the past it used to be that totalitarian governments fell because the population was poor and deeply unhappy.…

It's been "Brave New World" for a while now.

"The philosophy of the ruling minority in Nineteen Eighty-Four is a sadism which has been carried to its logical conclusion by going beyond sex and denying it.

Whether in actual fact the policy of the boot-on-the-face can go on indefinitely seems doubtful. My own belief is that the ruling oligarchy will find less arduous and wasteful ways of governing and of satisfying its lust for power, and these ways will resemble those which I described in Brave New World."

http://www.openculture.com/2018/08/aldous-huxley-george-orwe...

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#26

Post by nkozyra »

josefresco wrote: post #4

Just because Assange did one (or more) good things (Collateral Murder) does not make everything else he does, also good. Assange is not a journalist, and ceased being a journalist when he decided to enforce personal agendas and arguably work with nation-states to harm other nation-states. Even if you believe he's a journalist, journalists should not be above the law even if part of their work is for the good of the p…

> Just because Assange did one (or more) good things (Collateral Murder) does not make everything else he does, also good.

Who is saying this? It was simply a demonstrable example of why people need the protections we afford the media.

> Assange is not a journalist,

There exists no binary test for "a journalist"/"not a journalist" and by the broadest definition it's not a particularly hard thing to meet. By quibbling over the definition we create wiggle room for the government to decide when someone isn't or isn't a journalist and charge accordingly. We should afford someone like Assange the same general rights we would for a veteran journalist at WSJ or NYT.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#28

Post by [deleted] »

mc32 wrote: post #6

I wish people would just focus on the part that regards journalism, free press, free speech, sources and releasing leaked information. All the rest will fall along political lines. Liked or disliked for the effects on political allies and foes. It’s obvious if you have followed this case. Three years ago the right loathed him, today they love him and conversely today the left loathes him but 3 years ago they loved hi…

[deleted]

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#29

Post by throwaway8879 »

blub wrote: post #14
mc32 wrote: post #6

I wish people would just focus on the part that regards journalism, free press, free speech, sources and releasing leaked information. All the rest will fall along political lines. Liked or disliked for the effects on political allies and foes. It’s obvious if you have followed this case. Three years ago the right loathed him, today they love him and conversely today the left loathes him but 3 years ago they loved hi…

The implications are grim. Governments worldwide are tightening the screws, becoming more secretive and spying extensively on their citizens. Voting doesn't work, as most parties support this encroachment on civil liberties in the name of fighting various evils. I don't have any solutions and little hope. In the past it used to be that totalitarian governments fell because the population was poor and deeply unhappy.…

It also seems to me that the possibility of a revolution, in any sense of the word, is getting more and more miniscule, no matter which angle you look at it, whether it's because many people simply don't care or are happy to voluntarily give up private information for diminishing doses of dopamine hits.

The thing about any major revolutionary change is that the initial seed is planted through breaking some kind of law. And if we get to the point where breaking simple laws is impossible because of the near-complete information the state actor has on it's people, things are likely to get worse.

I do see a bleak future ahead. And grim.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#30

Post by sprafa »

throwaway8879 wrote: post #29
blub wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The implications are grim. Governments worldwide are tightening the screws, becoming more secretive and spying extensively on their citizens. Voting doesn't work, as most parties support this encroachment on civil liberties in the name of fighting various evils. I don't have any solutions and little hope. In the past it used to be that totalitarian governments fell because the population was poor and deeply unhappy.…

It also seems to me that the possibility of a revolution, in any sense of the word, is getting more and more miniscule, no matter which angle you look at it, whether it's because many people simply don't care or are happy to voluntarily give up private information for diminishing doses of dopamine hits. The thing about any major revolutionary change is that the initial seed is planted through breaking some kind of la…

According to research I’ve read revolutions grow more likely only when food prices exceed the average income of the population. That is - populations only revolt when starving. That would explain why we see so little of them - starvation level poverty is perhaps becoming less common? This would be a good thing.
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