Green threads explained in 200 lines of Rust
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Re: Green threads explained in 200 lines of Rust
#22Daily reminder that goroutines don't require a context switch.
Re: Green threads explained in 200 lines of Rust
#23Co-routines are very useful and likely underused, but sometimes you are actually better off being able to pass the control to a given thread directly, other than having a scheduler involved. Anecdote: almost a decade ago, I was responsible for an NVMe-like implementation (hard- and software). The 3rd version of the firmware recognized the various components as threads, but there was no need for preemption (which woul…
That's almost the very definition of a coroutine--explicit transfer of control. In symmetric coroutines you must specify a coroutine for both yield and resume; in asymmetric coroutines you specify what to resume to but yield implicitly returns to whatever resumed the current coroutine. In either case the actual control flow transfer is explicitly invoked.
The term thread is more ambiguous, but it almost always implies control transfers--both the timing and target of control transfer--are implicit and not directly exposed to application logic. (Automagic control transfer might be hidden within commonly used functions (e.g. read and write), injected by the compiler (Go does this), or triggered by hardware.)
You can synthesize a threading framework with both asymmetric and symmetric stackful[1] coroutines by simply overloading the resume and yield operations to transfer control to a scheduler, and then hiding implicit resume/yield points within commonly used functions or by machine translation of the code. In languages where "yield" and "resume" are exposed as regular functions this is especially trivial. Stackful coroutines (as opposed to stackless, which are the most commonly provided type of coroutine) are a powerful enough primitive that building threads is relatively trivial, which is why the concepts are easy to conflate, but they shouldn't be confused.
LISP-y languages blur some of these distinctions as libraries can easily rewrite code; they can inject implicit control transfer and stack management in unobtrusive ways.[2] This isn't possible to the same extent in languages like C, C++, or Rust; lacking a proper control flow primitive (i.e. stackful coroutine) their "threading" frameworks[3] are both syntactically and semantically leaky.
[1] By definition a thread preserves stack state--recursive function state--and this usually implies that stack management occurs at a very low-level in the execution environment, but in any case largely hidden from the logical application code.
[2] OTOH, this is usually inefficient--stack management is a very performance critical aspect of the runtime. For example, Guile, a Scheme implementation, now provides a stackful coroutine primitive. For a good discussion of some of these issues, see https://wingolog.org/archives/2017/06/27/growing-fibers
[3] Specifically the frameworks that attempt to make asynchronous I/O network programming simple and efficient. So-called native threads are a different matter as both stack management and control transfer are largely implemented outside the purview of those languages, very much like how native processes are implemented. If you go back far enough in the literature, especially before virtual memory, the distinctions between process and thread fall away. Nowadays threads are differentiated from processes by sharing the same memory/object space.
Re: Green threads explained in 200 lines of Rust
#24D's implementation ^ (Linked partly because the inline assembly is very clear)
Re: Green threads explained in 200 lines of Rust
#25Daily reminder that goroutines don't require a context switch.
Re: Green threads explained in 200 lines of Rust
#26Co-routines are very useful and likely underused, but sometimes you are actually better off being able to pass the control to a given thread directly, other than having a scheduler involved. Anecdote: almost a decade ago, I was responsible for an NVMe-like implementation (hard- and software). The 3rd version of the firmware recognized the various components as threads, but there was no need for preemption (which woul…
> Co-routines are very useful and likely underused, but sometimes you are actually better off being able to pass the control to a given thread directly, other than having a scheduler involved. That's almost the very definition of a coroutine--explicit transfer of control. In symmetric coroutines you must specify a coroutine for both yield and resume; in asymmetric coroutines you specify what to resume to but yield im…
For some color to your other points: the previous version was actually using continuation passing style which worked and was very fast (faster than coroutines), but challenging to understand without a good background in FP and FP implementations.
Re: Green threads explained in 200 lines of Rust
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a simple but working example
Yeah, of course, but how would you work this type of code into something that can be used in production? The goal should be to have a green thread library that you can just use without thinking about registers or assembly.
Also, rust already have several options for concurrency/parallelism that are more idiomatic.
The only reason I see is to have a coroutine library for build a language, yet I have wonder if I put a facade of Actix actors or similar for this case...
Re: Green threads explained in 200 lines of Rust
#28Isn't one downside that the inline assembly will not be peephole-optimized by the code generator (LLVM)? E.g., you'd be saving and restoring registers that are not even used.
You potentially don't know who is "resuming", and so don't know what registers they will clobber. It would only be a "downside" if 1) your code uses a register 2) no other possible green threads do, and that isn't an invariant any compiler I know will promise, especially in the face of FFI calls.
If you're at the point where you want to do register allocation and spilling optimization across multitasking points, you're probably better off writing your own compiler instead of expecting a thread runtime to do it for you.
For comparison, normal threads have the same downside: the kernel saves and restores all registers (even more than what the example does), so you're not doing any worse than that.
Re: Green threads explained in 200 lines of Rust
#29Re: Green threads explained in 200 lines of Rust
#30Co-routines are very useful and likely underused, but sometimes you are actually better off being able to pass the control to a given thread directly, other than having a scheduler involved. Anecdote: almost a decade ago, I was responsible for an NVMe-like implementation (hard- and software). The 3rd version of the firmware recognized the various components as threads, but there was no need for preemption (which woul…