I’ve only had about two years of software experience, but my (junior) opinion is that I’d prepare to spend even more of my brainpower on political cagematch fights than usual, as non-hierarchical means my “equals” are going to start trying to intercept credit, take lead on things, etc. and position themselves as de facto managers without me being able to tell them “fuck off, you’re not my manager.”
No Kings: How Do You Make Good Decisions Efficiently in a Flat Organization?
21–30 of 325 posts
Re: No Kings: How Do You Make Good Decisions Efficiently in a Flat Organization?
#22Easy, you simply make the decisions within the confines of the shadow hierarchy that exists within all flat organizations.
I agree with your point but in the end the article was more about efficient decision making in engineering teams and less about flat organizations. Up-voted both the article and your comment :) Reminds me about the stuff I've read about Valve. In theory, and maybe if you have strong healthy de facto leadership it could work. In practice it seems more like an excuse to dodge responsibility, leading to pretty toxic pla…
This is a common criticism of Valve's model, and it's fair to say that Valve's model isn't clearly obviously better, but those attack's on Valve don't make the case that the traditional hierarchical model, with its own well-known problems, is better.
Re: No Kings: How Do You Make Good Decisions Efficiently in a Flat Organization?
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are shadow power structures, but I don't think you are correct that they are necessarily hierarchical.
Isn't hierarchy intrinsic to power?
You can have webs of power, but I've found that organizations that work this way have a lot of dysfunction. That's not to say that a hierarchy can't be dysfunctional, but I do think that well constructed hierarchies without tyrants are preferable to their "webbed" equivalent, since webs are almost always inefficient and serve to mask a lot of the power for the sake of a superficial form of equality or equity.
I won't name names, but a company that I worked for was very web-like, which felt good at first because it seems more "fair" or democratic, but it lead to constant confusion, infighting, communication failures, etc., and I discovered that it lead to two forms of employees: hogs that managed to eat more from the trough through clever maneuvering, and "homer simpsons" who figured out they could be lazy and not suffer serious consequences since their title was nebulous and the chain of command was diffuse(an individual with poor performance didn't reflect that badly on a superior).
The team that I worked on functioned mostly as a web, and that actually worked well because we were only 6 people at most, but an entire company functioning as a web is a nightmare.
Re: No Kings: How Do You Make Good Decisions Efficiently in a Flat Organization?
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the hierarchical ordering of Congress, SCOTUS, and the White House?
There are very clear hierarchies in Congress (Speaker/Majority Leader, Majority Whip, Committee Chairs) and White House (President, Vice President, Cabinet). There is no power structure in SCOTUS: each of the justices is equal and has nobody to answer to. There are likely shadow organizations in the Congress and White House with their own (unpublished) hierarchy, but probably not in the SCOTUS due to its size and the…
SCOTUS is a nearly-pure democracy. Every issue of substance is put to a vote, and everyone has freedom to act individually in anything not put to vote, along with ample funding for their desires (law clerks for work, and indivual pay for personal perks). (Namely, Q&A in session, and what they write in their opinions.)
Their scope of power is sufficiently limited that favor-trading isn't very important.
All that remains are the minor traditional formalities of when and where they meet and how they dress.
When your group grows beyond 9 people, that gets harder.
Re: No Kings: How Do You Make Good Decisions Efficiently in a Flat Organization?
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the hierarchical ordering of Congress, SCOTUS, and the White House?
SCOTUS > White House > Congress but I get your point.
Only by convention and precedent. FDR's threats to pack the court certainly influenced them and if implemented would have subverted them.
Re: No Kings: How Do You Make Good Decisions Efficiently in a Flat Organization?
#26I’ve only had about two years of software experience, but my (junior) opinion is that I’d prepare to spend even more of my brainpower on political cagematch fights than usual, as non-hierarchical means my “equals” are going to start trying to intercept credit, take lead on things, etc. and position themselves as de facto managers without me being able to tell them “fuck off, you’re not my manager.”
This happens in organizations that aren't flat. They're dysfunctional, but they aren't flat.
Re: No Kings: How Do You Make Good Decisions Efficiently in a Flat Organization?
#27I’ve only had about two years of software experience, but my (junior) opinion is that I’d prepare to spend even more of my brainpower on political cagematch fights than usual, as non-hierarchical means my “equals” are going to start trying to intercept credit, take lead on things, etc. and position themselves as de facto managers without me being able to tell them “fuck off, you’re not my manager.”
It is said, "Success has many parents. Failure is an orphan."
Before you get into cage matches, engage with your colleagues respectfully and maturely, politely declining suggestions you disagree with, before rushing to cuss them out.
Re: No Kings: How Do You Make Good Decisions Efficiently in a Flat Organization?
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the hierarchical ordering of Congress, SCOTUS, and the White House?
The President appoints SCOTUS, so has the final say there. The critical fight was done by FDR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_Procedures_Reform_Bil... Congress and President have, as I understand it, a mutual veto - but in the case where both are controlled by the same party, they tend to defer to the party organisation, which in turn defers to the President. Where they don't, you get shutdowns.
The President already appointed the SCOTUS before FDR, per the Appointments Clause of the US
Constitution.
Re: No Kings: How Do You Make Good Decisions Efficiently in a Flat Organization?
#29> At Doist we believe that open and sincere communication improves our decision-making process. That’s why we’ve built a culture that encourages feedback at all levels of decision-making
Who is 'we' and doesn't that get to the nub of the problem? It's highly unlikely that they held a group conference and decided what 'we at Doist' believe.
That 'we' actually refers to a small subset of leaders who decide, and it is 'flatness' and stagnation for the rest.