Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems • Hacker News Board

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#21

Post by yepguy » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 4:07 PM UTC

To fight this, I don't think we should be talking about privacy or rights. That's all very important, but society is already fairly desensitized to that language, and the pro-surveillance side can literally point to the dead bodies of real children.

Instead, we should be talking about how deleterious it is to the character development of our children. Among other problems, they are being demanded to conform to an increasingly narrow range of acceptable behavior, and conditioned to develop about as unhealthy a relationship with authority figures as possible.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#22

Post by falcolas » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

Maximus9000 wrote: post #13

xfitm3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm speechless. This is egregious and unacceptable. I'm thankful this kind of stuff didnt exist when I grew up.

> I'm thankful this kind of stuff didnt exist when I grew up. If I had a nickel for every time I've heard an adult say this phrase lately, I'd be rich! Did adults used to say this phrase 30 years ago? What are we doing to ourselves and our kids?

My parents lamented the lack of outside-school responsibilities (such as having to raise animals on a farm, both did so) as much as anything else. I think that is a far cry from "limited freedom to leave the house on my own", "digital bullying" (the personal bullying was sufficient, I'm grateful it didn't extend to my time at home), and "authoritative surveillance".

The scope of changes between pre-tech childhood and post-tech is simply huge. Quite possibly unprecedented in history.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#23

Post by esaym » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

Ah Clute, Texas. Howdy from Brazosport class of 2002! This is the second article mentioning this area on HN I've seen in the last 3 years or so. The first one mentioned Brazosport as the dropout capital of the entire USA. So I doubt anyone within a 100 mile radius of there has ever heard of HN (but waiting to be proven wrong).

Edit:

I guess to add more context. This is probably an example of a small, underfunded, school district being coaxed into purchasing something it doesn't even need, or the administration doesn't even understand.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#24

Post by rgrieselhuber » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 4:12 PM UTC

guitarbill wrote: post #18

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is really weird to want to educate your own children.

Might as well deprive them of normal social interactions and different opinions while you're at it. Personally, I'm glad my country does not allow such nonsense and hubris. Of course, it's a straw man, you can care about your children's education in other ways, and outside of school, too.

It varies depending on circumstances, of course, but the vast majority of homeschooled kids I've met are very well socialized, capable of reasoned debate, and quite well-rounded in their outlook on life. By contrast, in American public schools at least, I'm seeing a serious trend toward unhealthy social interactions, cyber bullying, teachers who only have time for testing, and more. If your country doesn't allow it, you may not have had the chance to observe the difference but it's pretty significant.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#25

Post by srs_sput » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

arikr wrote: post #17

Dang could we possibly get a new title on this? The default one is a bit clickbaity.

Also a link to the non mobile site please

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#26

Post by momokoko » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #2

"The local Brazosport Independent School District had recently hired a company called Social Sentinel to monitor public posts from all users, including adults, on Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms. The company's algorithms flagged Lafrenais's tweet as a potential threat. Automated alerts were sent to the district's superintendent, chief of police, director of student services, and director of guidan…

Unfortunately, it's pick one.

Either:

1. Allow for potential bullying and sexual harassment and other things kids put each other through.

2. Monitor every single thing they do and police them at all times.

We as a society need to make a choice. You cannot have a perfectly safe and positive environment at all times for children(and adults) without constant and detailed monitoring.

My guess is that the correct answer lies somewhere in the middle. Ignoring that reality and avoiding handling this at the regulatory level will result in groups going either all the way to one side or all the way to the other.

Edit: I'm shocked how insane and unrealistic the people downvoting this are. I feel so unbelievably bad if any of you have children or vote on any policy that has to do with children. Awful people. Just awful.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#27

Post by rgrieselhuber » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 4:15 PM UTC

Mizza wrote: post #20

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is really weird to want to educate your own children.

I see the appeal of that, but I think most of us think that the school experience is necessary for proper socialization of the kids. Personally I think that most schools are akin to prisons in many ways, but they were also the place where I forged some lifelong friendships.

I agree on the prison characterization (in general, not in all cases). The tradeoff is that you have to be more proactive at socialization but there are plenty of opportunities to socialize through extra-curricular activities, co-ops, meeting up with other families during the day, etc. Nothing's perfect. That's the whole point of having options and the freedom to choose what works for you.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#28

Post by JoeAltmaier » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 4:16 PM UTC

momokoko wrote: post #26

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #2

"The local Brazosport Independent School District had recently hired a company called Social Sentinel to monitor public posts from all users, including adults, on Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms. The company's algorithms flagged Lafrenais's tweet as a potential threat. Automated alerts were sent to the district's superintendent, chief of police, director of student services, and director of guidan…

Unfortunately, it's pick one. Either: 1. Allow for potential bullying and sexual harassment and other things kids put each other through. 2. Monitor every single thing they do and police them at all times. We as a society need to make a choice. You cannot have a perfectly safe and positive environment at all times for children(and adults) without constant and detailed monitoring. My guess is that the correct answer l…

Its popular to create false dichotomies. Like this one.

How about: monitor them sometimes and train them into good behavior patterns, so as to create a population of civil citizens

You can have zero tolerance for bullying and harassment, without 100 surveillance. Like any civil society.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#29

Post by iamnothere » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

guitarbill wrote: post #18

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is really weird to want to educate your own children.

Might as well deprive them of normal social interactions and different opinions while you're at it. Personally, I'm glad my country does not allow such nonsense and hubris. Of course, it's a straw man, you can care about your children's education in other ways, and outside of school, too.

Many homeschooling programs have a mandatory requirement that includes time spent with other kids in a sort of classroom setting; it's just that this doesn't happen every day, unlike a regular school.

It's not "hubris" to homeschool when your school system is a dumpster fire. We've spent decades trying to improve the schools in some areas, only to see continued decline and often blatant political sabotage that seems to be endemic to the system. What can you do in that case if (a) you care about your child's future and (b) you can't move for whatever reason?

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#30

Post by iamnothere » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

cryoshon wrote: post #11

if you've ever been to a middle school or a high school as a student, you know that these surveillance systems are probably already being used to crush innocent dissent. imagine how many times you made a snide remark about a teacher or a principal to your peers in confidence. now, the target of your jeer will know that you're talking shit -- and, much like if they were to overhear trash talk about them in the hallway…

> if you've ever been to a middle school or a high school as a student, you know that these surveillance systems are probably already being used to crush innocent dissent.

This may sound hyperbolic to some people (my schools were fine), but it is very true that school administration has a tendency to attract petty authoritarians. Who is easier to rule with an iron fist than powerless children?

I sometimes see things like the laptop spying scandal [0] and realize that I was very lucky to avoid these sorts of people as a kid.

[0] https://www.computerworld.com/article/2521075/pennsylvania-s...