Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster • Hacker News Board

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#21

Post by cyphar » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

SuddsMcDuff wrote: post #8

I'm getting a bit sick of journalists acting like they should be above the law. This comes across as though it's an audacious abuse of authority for any law enforcement official to even think about stepping foot into a media companies office. No, you are subject to criminal investigation just like anyone else is. I'm always amazed how qickly the media closes ranks when one of their own is perceived to be under attack…

Australia does not have any constitutional protections of press freedom (or freedom of speech for that matter). So draconian laws limiting press freedom can be passed without any recourse for the public.

Being able to forcefully disclose a journalists sources would not be permitted anywhere else in the world. We need reforms, not cow-towing to these disgusting authoritarian tactics.

Not to mention that this is clearly political. This comes on the eve of an election, and is related to articles published ~2 years ago. Not to mention the most recent article in question described alleged war crimes by the Australian military. But there's no legal investigation into that law breaking, all that matters is that the whistleblower is arrested and made an example of.

I hope we one day see an anti-corruption commission and pass laws protecting whistleblowers and a free press. But it's going to be a long road.

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#22

Post by chrisseaton » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 4:06 PM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #17

chrisseaton wrote: post #5

Why are the BBC quoting the BBC's opinion on this? Are the BBC making a political opinion statement about the police in another country? The BBC have always loved to report about themselves and often literally interview themselves. It's not unusual for them to report about their own report of an interview between themselves and one of their own executives. But this is become really bizarre now.

An opinion is not an article. A news organization may report an opinion, factually, as part of an article, if it is relevant, even if the source of the opinion is themselves. It makes perfect sense to me.

I don't think the BBC should give any political opinion on any news story, ever.

But if they want to, why don't they report the story and include their opinion straightforwardly? Why do they resort to the mental gymnastics of issuing an opinion and then reporting on that opinion as a new story as if it's a separate thing? Makes me think they know it's wrong so they contort themselves like this to do it.

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#23

Post by sonnyblarney » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 4:07 PM UTC

anarchy8 wrote: post #10

SuddsMcDuff wrote: post #8

I'm getting a bit sick of journalists acting like they should be above the law. This comes across as though it's an audacious abuse of authority for any law enforcement official to even think about stepping foot into a media companies office. No, you are subject to criminal investigation just like anyone else is. I'm always amazed how qickly the media closes ranks when one of their own is perceived to be under attack…

I'm pretty amazed that people on this forum are so quick to jump on the side of an authoritarian right-wing government over press freedom.

Australia, one of the most open, free and fair places in the world, into which millions are trying to migrate because of this ... is now a 'right wing authoritarian state'?

I think we need to look at the specific information in question.

FYI here's a summary of Australia shield laws [1] (sorry, it's not very good)

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/07/australia-jour...

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#24

Post by shusson » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

For those who don't know, the ABC is funded by the government.

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#25

Post by ebog » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

SuddsMcDuff wrote: post #8

I'm getting a bit sick of journalists acting like they should be above the law. This comes across as though it's an audacious abuse of authority for any law enforcement official to even think about stepping foot into a media companies office. No, you are subject to criminal investigation just like anyone else is. I'm always amazed how qickly the media closes ranks when one of their own is perceived to be under attack…

In the US at least, press freedom is greater than simply freedom of speech (according to case law), and this is by design. Information of significant public interest shouldn't be censored.

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#26

Post by notgonnakeep » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

SuddsMcDuff wrote: post #19

anarchy8 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty amazed that people on this forum are so quick to jump on the side of an authoritarian right-wing government over press freedom.

What a misguided comment. There are no "sides" here. Unless you think that any criticism of journalistic practices puts me on "the other team". Grow up!

So, if journalists catch wind of the government being involved in illegal activity, they should just sit down and shut up because it's not their place to publish it. Don't see bootlickers too often on HN, but here you are.

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#27

Post by shusson » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #5

Why are the BBC quoting the BBC's opinion on this? Are the BBC making a political opinion statement about the police in another country? The BBC have always loved to report about themselves and often literally interview themselves. It's not unusual for them to report about their own report of an interview between themselves and one of their own executives. But this is become really bizarre now.

The ABC was modelled after the BBC and still has a lot of similarities with the BBC [1]. It makes sense that the BBC has an opinion on this and is quoted.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Broadcasting_Corpor...

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#28

Post by johneth » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #22

happytoexplain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An opinion is not an article. A news organization may report an opinion, factually, as part of an article, if it is relevant, even if the source of the opinion is themselves. It makes perfect sense to me.

I don't think the BBC should give any political opinion on any news story, ever. But if they want to, why don't they report the story and include their opinion straightforwardly? Why do they resort to the mental gymnastics of issuing an opinion and then reporting on that opinion as a new story as if it's a separate thing? Makes me think they know it's wrong so they contort themselves like this to do it.

The BBC (organisation) is giving the opinion. BBC News (an independent division within the organisation) is reporting on it, likely in the interests of full transparency.

The BBC has certain obligations, one of which is "sustaining citizenship and civil society"[1], of which freedom of the press falls under. So in this case, I'd argue they're obligated to defend it by giving their opinion, especially when it's happening to a fellow public broadcaster (the ABC).

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidelines/bbc-edi...

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#29

Post by johneth » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #20

johneth wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you think about their transparency and impartiality if they didn't report on a story they're involved in? That's why.

They should let other people report on stories that involve themselves, obviously.

The BBC reporting on stories about itself doesn't stop other people from also reporting on stories about the BBC. Isn't that obvious?

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#30

Post by pjc50 » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #15

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #3

Reminds me of the Guradian being intimidated over the Snowden leaks by being forced to drill through their harddrives: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/31/footage-rele...

To be fair, working at a medical billing company standard practice was zero out drive, then drill. It was far less secret than that too

The point was not the method of destruction but that they were forced to do it at all, on a questionable legal basis, on computers they were still using (not disposing of).