Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 62 posts

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#21

Post by basementcat »

thrwwayy1905 wrote: post #14

I am trying to understand what it feels like to Chinese people. As Americans, is there any past government action we can't criticize? I am sure there is some example but I can't think of it. Is there something similar for us?

I think some Chinese think of the 64 events in the context of the Cultural Revolution (which was still fresh in the memories of the leadership at the time). Many were afraid that the student protests would result in another Cultural Revolution and believe it was for the greater good to stop the protests at all costs.

Perhaps a congruent (but not exactly analogous) debate in the USA would be the use of atomic weapons at the end of WW2.

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#22

Post by mrtimo »

I'm reading this thread while in a hotel a block away from the square in China (not on VPN, because that has not been working due to political events). Of course the BBC article is blocked. The thirtieth anniversary of the event is tomorrow.

Interesting that HN is not blocked.

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#23

Post by CamperBob2 »

felipemnoa wrote: post #20
thrwwayy1905 wrote: post #14

I am trying to understand what it feels like to Chinese people. As Americans, is there any past government action we can't criticize? I am sure there is some example but I can't think of it. Is there something similar for us?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

Good point, no one ever criticizes that.

But it's a good point to bring up when someone plays the moral relativism card. Imagine if our government sent armed thugs after anyone who posts or even mentions the famous photo of the students at Kent State. Not even Nixon would have tried that, but it's business as usual in China.

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#25

Post by DFHippie »

scotty79 wrote: post #12
gesticulator wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t the suppression of the event in media the key difference, though? The Waco massacre was widely discussed and publicized, and you can find plenty of information on it if you’d like - including people that defend the Waco standoff.

It seems to me like Orwell vs. Huxley difference. In the end thing is mostly forgotten in both cases.

Here is the difference: in one case it is forgotten because the government is actively imprisoning people who mention it; in the other, because people are apathetic and easily distracted and perhaps disagree that this is an event of similar import. It seems a rather important difference to me.

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#26

Post by godelski »

mrtimo wrote: post #22

I'm reading this thread while in a hotel a block away from the square in China (not on VPN, because that has not been working due to political events). Of course the BBC article is blocked. The thirtieth anniversary of the event is tomorrow. Interesting that HN is not blocked.

Let's test it: is this blocked? https://outline.com/99a78v

What about this (expires in 7 days, but does require an actual download. It is a FF screenshot of the BBC page): https://send.firefox.com/download/0fc126b73012ee50/#o_bILCxP...

I'm curious, because if they analyze these links (or even this message) I figure it would be easy to identify.

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#27

Post by lambdasquirrel »

thrwwayy1905 wrote: post #14

I am trying to understand what it feels like to Chinese people. As Americans, is there any past government action we can't criticize? I am sure there is some example but I can't think of it. Is there something similar for us?

I think it’s actually quite simple. The Chinese fear the American government more than the Chinese government. Therefore they care more about the legitimacy of the Chinese government and are willing to elide whatever mistakes their own government may have made. That their government may or may not have told the truth about Tiananmen is immaterial.

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#28

Post by Barrin92 »

dmix wrote: post #5

I wonder who asked the Tiananmen question to the minister from the audience in Singapore. That guy has some backbone, I like it. They should be challenged on the topic of their political repression more. And not just the typical American channels which Beijing finds easy to dismiss as western propaganda. It's a pretty simple equation. Why would any state have to spend so much explicit effort on making no one mention…

>I wonder who asked the Tiananmen question to the minister from the audience in Singapore. That guy has some backbone, I like it. They should be challenged on the topic of their political repression more. And not just the typical American channels which Beijing finds easy to dismiss as western propaganda.

In contrast to the man in the audience Singapore was one of the first countries to normalise relationships with China, and in his biography From third world to First, Lee Kuan Yew actually seems somewhat supportive of it because he contrasts China's handling of the situation with the collapse of the Soviet Union.

And realistically a country like Singapore is always going to be best positioned by keeping its relationships to opposing forces like the USA and China ambiguous. Committing to one side will draw a reaction from the other, and for smaller countries that's devastating. The space for most freedom and autonomy for a country like Singapore is right in the middle, in a competition between two large nations, choosing sides is a bad move.

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#29

Post by avocado4 »

thrwwayy1905 wrote: post #14

I am trying to understand what it feels like to Chinese people. As Americans, is there any past government action we can't criticize? I am sure there is some example but I can't think of it. Is there something similar for us?

You can just go visit China and see for yourself. Beijing / Shanghai at least, but better yet outside the top tier cities (if you can get a proper Visa for that).

I found it almost funny that you just cannot say anything negative about anything Han-related. Few months ago I was having lunch with somebody considered educated & globalized (went to school in the UK, works in a Canadian VC firm in Beijing). The minute I said that my air quality monitor[1] is reading PM10 100+[2] in Beijing so I need to wear a mask, she said I was exaggerating and that the monitor firmware was modified by American propaganda machine.

Then this other guy went on a rant of Aquaman (movie) being a great Chinese achievement because it's directed by James Wan (Wan is a common Han last name). The guy is Malaysian-born Australian who made a career in LA.

I don't particularly care if that's how people prefer to live their life (if it works for them that's fine). I just find it funny and weird every time I go there.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DJ1WCVP

[2] https://www.who.int/airpollution/data/en/

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#30

Post by DFHippie »

peisistratos wrote: post #9

It sounds like the US government ministers who defended the 1992 crackdown in Los Angeles at the Republican National Convention and elsewhere. The US army marched in to quell the upset, and dozens were killed. Although we do not hear much about that in the US other than praise of the army. Just endless rehashes of Beijing events before LA happened, in the middle of Trump's trade and South China sea war with China.

Are you thinking of the protests in 1968 at the Democratic National Convention? It was the police, there, not the army. I don't believe there were any deaths there, though. Maybe you're thinking of Kent State? That wasn't affiliated with any party's convention.
Post reply on HN