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Outschooling

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Re: Outschooling

#21

Post by up_and_up »

jaden wrote: post #2

Homeschooling seems like an ideal solution for those with a parent at home to improve their children's academic learning. But it's concerning that those actively involved parents are removed from the public school system.

We have homeschool friends who felt the same and tried to get involved with the public school system. They are very civic minded etc. They found the red tape crushing for their kid, who is a bit of genius, plus he was getting beat up etc. Obviously this is anecdotal. They pulled him and now he is winning academic competitions (history, geography) like 3 grade levels above his age. He reads war history for hours and hours.

Re: Outschooling

#22

Post by carlob »

I think this is going to be very controversial on the typical HN crowd: maybe too European, or too socialist. However here it goes.

Some ten years ago I was convinced that private schools had a right to exist, but that they should never impact the funding of public schools, not even indirectly.

Then I discovered that homeschooling was a thing in the US.

Now I tend to believe that private schools should not be allowed to exist. School is far too important as a social mixer and a way to educate well-rounded citizens to leave it to the whims of parents. Parents already have a large enough impact on their kids, to let them take over 100% of their time.

I also strongly believe that parents whose beliefs prevent their kids from getting the medical care they deserve (from refusing transfusions, to refusing vaccines) should get a hard look from social services.

In general I don't believe that parenthood trumps some things that as a society we consider basic human rights. I think most people would agree with me when it comes down to issues like violence, exploitation and child labor, but I think this should extend to the access to healthcare and to a secular education.

Re: Outschooling

#23

Post by rootusrootus »

camelNotation wrote: post #17
inetknght wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's concerning that those actively involved parents are removed from the public school system. As someone who was homeschooled: it's extremely scary. I've missed out on social experiences and also on actual education and consider myself generally worse-off for it. Consider: Texas permits homeschooling and has effectively zero oversight. How many homeschooling families are also anti-vaxxers or feed into anti-govern…

I don't think this is a problem with homeschooling as much as with a subset of homeschoolers - particularly religious fundamentalists and anarchist types. My wife and I homeschool, but we have our kids pushing well beyond their grade level in every subject. She had a teaching license up until a couple of years ago (they do expire after a while) and taught for several years before we had kids. Then, once they arrived,…

> They'll walk away from this better equipped than any of their peers in traditional school.

Except for those whose parents also hire expert tutors. It's not like kids going to traditional schools can't also get additional educational opportunities.

When you consider how much homeschooling is by parents who are not themselves professional educators, I suspect a hybrid approach works better on average.

Re: Outschooling

#24

Post by up_and_up »

charliesharding wrote: post #19
up_and_up wrote: post #16

My wife are secular homeschoolers and have homeschooled our 3 kids: 10,8,5 for 5 years. We use outschool regularly, its a great platform to introduce random topics. I would invest in it honestly. AMA I guess

What were the primary motivations for homeschooling? Cultural? Political? Quality? Access? Also how do you go about socializing them? I've been considering it myself

My wife was from a very competitive school district which forced overachievement and I got beat up by bullies in a small town school. Besides the personal anecdotes,

1. we felt like time was passing too quickly and wanted to have them around, we wanted to be together basically.

2. with 3 kids my wife hasnt been able to work (her line of work is not well paying), so it made sense to start homeschooling vs private schooling.

3. I have issues with what public schools are now, hyper focused on testing, lack of critical thinking, no outdoor time.

The "socializing" concern is a farce imo. Granted we live in area with plenty of groups. Maybe a solo kid way out in the sticks will have problems. Our kids also regularly play with kids 2-5 years older or younger so things are different. Our kids have activities with other homeschool kids 4 days a week.

The schedule looks like this:

M: Outdoor Nature camp: think building fire with bow drills, axes, skinning animals, foraging for wild plants

T: Academic day at home then occasional horseback riding

W: Academic day at home, private music lessons, then playdate at friends house

TH: Homeschool meetup group: think art, music, dance, karate, extracurricular classes with a group of 100 kids and 10 teachers

FRI: another Homeschool meetup group: with various classes and open play

SAT: Climbing, iceskating, skiing, biking, something outdoors

Our life is a mellower version of "Captain Fantastic"

Re: Outschooling

#25

Post by surge »

carlob wrote: post #22

I think this is going to be very controversial on the typical HN crowd: maybe too European, or too socialist. However here it goes. Some ten years ago I was convinced that private schools had a right to exist, but that they should never impact the funding of public schools, not even indirectly. Then I discovered that homeschooling was a thing in the US. Now I tend to believe that private schools should not be allowed…

You have a very narrow view of home schooling and only the worse cases. Take a look at the worse outcomes of public schooling and the averages in performance of home school kids versus public school kids. The social anxiety and other issues of kids going through a modern high school versus kids who socialize with mostly adults and socialize in sports programs, co-ops, or groups and learn to be self driven in learning.

Public schools have a long way to go before they should be made mandatory. Until it is the very best solution for everyone, until it addresses every learning disability, the class sizes are smaller, teachers are paid better, classes track with a students ability and mental development and actually run in line with the latest in neuroscience and child development, have flexible hours so teenagers can sleep longer, put less on the kids when they go home so they have time for family activities and social interaction instead of 3-4 hrs of homework. Maybe when the solution isn't to medicate kids who don't learn by sitting still at a desk 6 hours a day with few breaks, elimination of recess and 20-30 minute lunch periods and few if any opportunities to "socialize" in the current schooling environment. When they teach problem solving and critical thinking, rather than rote memorizing for one standardized test at the end of year. If going to school was more like being an adult or put responsibilities on the student, like a college does, rather than treating the student population like they're in a low security prison. When it uses a system that wasn't developed for training factory workers and hasn't transitioned at all since then. When all the new money added to their budgets isn't siphoned up in administrative costs. When schools in many neighborhoods put kids in physical danger, involve gang activity and a good option simply isn't available to them because of their district. Then maybe we can talk about making it mandatory.

Even then, the most rich and privileged still would have loop holes for tutoring their kids for something other than factory work. We would still need exceptions for kids who for a variety of reasons, medical or otherwise need to be at home, students who travel or work in acting/performance. Kids who are on specialized career tracks in schools geared towards where its best they learn very young (perforamance arts and music, CS) to compete in a global market.

This idea that one education fits all is myopic and doesn't line up with the results that public schools produce thus far, and you want to take away any alternative.

It would be like if the only healthcare option in the US was the VA, and no one was allowed to seek healthcare else where because some people make bad health decisions and go to homeopathic healthcare providers.

Re: Outschooling

#26

Post by somethoughts »

The one I would be interested in would be "home-after-schooling". I would love to have more resources to help support K-8 students learn how to do original research for science fairs, MOOCs for non-math subjects and programming. Basically Khan Academy type courses that can enable teaching economics, literature, philosophy to a 12 year old. The interesting non-math stuff for Khan Academy doesn't start until 9-12th grade.

I'd be curious as to why there is not an option to watch a recorded version with Outschool.

Re: Outschooling

#27

Post by michaelchisari »

up_and_up wrote: post #24
charliesharding wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What were the primary motivations for homeschooling? Cultural? Political? Quality? Access? Also how do you go about socializing them? I've been considering it myself

My wife was from a very competitive school district which forced overachievement and I got beat up by bullies in a small town school. Besides the personal anecdotes, 1. we felt like time was passing too quickly and wanted to have them around, we wanted to be together basically. 2. with 3 kids my wife hasnt been able to work (her line of work is not well paying), so it made sense to start homeschooling vs private scho…

This seems extraordinarily well-balanced. I'm often skeptical of homeschooling (especially for religious or political reasons), but you've got a great curriculum and motivation.

Re: Outschooling

#28

Post by tbirrell »

GuiA wrote: post #6

Interesting blog post and theory. A core counter argument to their base premise is that learning effectively is done in person, as part of a social group, in a physical space dedicated to learning, with hands on practice. It certainly seems to be the core takeaways of Waldorf/Montessori/constructionist/etc. approaches. > When our kids were in school and struggled with a class/teacher/subject, we would get them a tuto…

Simple economics won't allow something to become cheaper just because its a shame that some people don't have access. The goal here isn't to provide elite, one-on-one tutoring with experts, its to provide auxiliary help for those who need it. Outschooling seems to be taking a stab at being the next best thing, not an out-and-out replacement.

Re: Outschooling

#29

Post by ryanobjc »

surge wrote: post #25
carlob wrote: post #22

I think this is going to be very controversial on the typical HN crowd: maybe too European, or too socialist. However here it goes. Some ten years ago I was convinced that private schools had a right to exist, but that they should never impact the funding of public schools, not even indirectly. Then I discovered that homeschooling was a thing in the US. Now I tend to believe that private schools should not be allowed…

You have a very narrow view of home schooling and only the worse cases. Take a look at the worse outcomes of public schooling and the averages in performance of home school kids versus public school kids. The social anxiety and other issues of kids going through a modern high school versus kids who socialize with mostly adults and socialize in sports programs, co-ops, or groups and learn to be self driven in learning…

In America we've had decades of various people attacking public schools. So to look at the state of public schools and saying this is how things are, well you're ignoring a broad history of American conservatism taking objection to public schooling.

Re: Outschooling

#30

Post by up_and_up »

michaelchisari wrote: post #27
up_and_up wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife was from a very competitive school district which forced overachievement and I got beat up by bullies in a small town school. Besides the personal anecdotes, 1. we felt like time was passing too quickly and wanted to have them around, we wanted to be together basically. 2. with 3 kids my wife hasnt been able to work (her line of work is not well paying), so it made sense to start homeschooling vs private scho…

This seems extraordinarily well-balanced. I'm often skeptical of homeschooling (especially for religious or political reasons), but you've got a great curriculum and motivation.

Thanks! Yeah we feel lucky to have local groups and resources to make this happen. Granted we have also worked hard to get there!
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