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Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees

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21–30 of 44 posts

Re: Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees

#21
post #4

I don't understand how politicians are allowed to campaign with corporate money.

I couldn't deduce from the article that money changed hands, much less in a campaign-situation? I don't know exactly how the EPA is structured, but it seems unlikely that elected officials would have much clout at such a low level.

Re: Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This describes the important of pollinators, but honey bees are not the only pollinators. I don't see enough evidence supporting the case that honey bees exclusively are responsible for pollinating 1/3 of all food, nor that the absence of honey bees would reduce food production by the same amount (which seem to be the positions you have put forth). Can you support those claims?

Can you support a contra position? That bees are not significant pollinators? Please do not forget other Apidae family members - they probably don't benefit from pesticides either. Oh... Another reference: http://www.pnas.org/content/99/26/16812.full - you can check references [6,7] yourself. Edit: I apologize - since I did limit my rant to honeybees initially.

The contra position would be that honey bees are responsible for supporting less than 1/3 all food production (which is a bit easier to prove). Bees are important pollinators but there are other pollinators and the case that the absence of honey bees would result in the absence of 1/3 of crop production is very weak, since the absence of competition from honey bees would likely result in some degree of compensation from other pollinator species (such as wasps).

The 2nd reference is the best so far, it provides some quantitative information about how dominant the honey bee is as a pollinator of commercial crops.

Personally I think bees are hugely important and it's quite sad the way bee populations have been mistreated, but it doesn't help to overstate the case (the case for being kind to bees is already very strong).

Re: Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees

#23
post #4

I don't understand how politicians are allowed to campaign with corporate money.

Don't worry. We'll lock down campaign contributions so much that only the six major corporations that control the mainstream media in the U.S can cover their campaigns.

>Back in 1983, approximately 50 corporations controlled the vast majority of all news media in the United States. Today, ownership of the news media has been concentrated in the hands of just six incredibly powerful media corporations.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/who-owns-the-med...

Re: Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees

#24
post #4

I don't understand how politicians are allowed to campaign with corporate money.

I couldn't deduce from the article that money changed hands, much less in a campaign-situation? I don't know exactly how the EPA is structured, but it seems unlikely that elected officials would have much clout at such a low level.

Context.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/24/tea-party-climat...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Environmental_Pro...

Re: Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees

#25
post #18
post #4

I don't understand how politicians are allowed to campaign with corporate money.

(I know this is naive, but) Corporations are made of people. All that money belongs to someone. So if those people decide to give that money to politicians, why does that make problems?

Corporations are not "made of people". Legally, corporations have individual free speech rights like people (in the U.S.). People individually deciding to give money to politicians is different from the corporation giving money to politicians, but both acts are considered free speech in the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Elec...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood

kb

Re: Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees

#26
post #5

Considering the EPA's past lies about the air quality at ground zero, the mercury levels in fresh water fish, etc., let's just say that if you believe anything they say then I've got a boat load of perfectly safe shrimp from the gulf to sell you.

Not to mention their stance on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing .

Re: Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees

#27
post #4

I don't understand how politicians are allowed to campaign with corporate money.

Don't worry. We'll lock down campaign contributions so much that only the six major corporations that control the mainstream media in the U.S can cover their campaigns. >Back in 1983, approximately 50 corporations controlled the vast majority of all news media in the United States. Today, ownership of the news media has been concentrated in the hands of just six incredibly powerful media corporations. http://theecono…

That's not actually true. It's more fragmented than that.

Re: Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This describes the important of pollinators, but honey bees are not the only pollinators. I don't see enough evidence supporting the case that honey bees exclusively are responsible for pollinating 1/3 of all food, nor that the absence of honey bees would reduce food production by the same amount (which seem to be the positions you have put forth). Can you support those claims?

Can you support a contra position? That bees are not significant pollinators? Please do not forget other Apidae family members - they probably don't benefit from pesticides either. Oh... Another reference: http://www.pnas.org/content/99/26/16812.full - you can check references [6,7] yourself. Edit: I apologize - since I did limit my rant to honeybees initially.

Honeybees are not native to the US. It would be odd to rely on a non-native species for our food supply.

Re: Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees

#29
post #18
post #4

I don't understand how politicians are allowed to campaign with corporate money.

(I know this is naive, but) Corporations are made of people. All that money belongs to someone. So if those people decide to give that money to politicians, why does that make problems?

In general, publicly traded corporations are run by people aiming to get bonuses by maximizing shareholder value. Those shareholders could be very indirect, in particular for pension funds.

With this level of abstraction, the final shareholders usually are not (or don't want to be) aware of things done in their name. The situation makes it very easy to look the other way.

IMHO, Adam Smith would be disgusted about this.

Re: Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you support a contra position? That bees are not significant pollinators? Please do not forget other Apidae family members - they probably don't benefit from pesticides either. Oh... Another reference: http://www.pnas.org/content/99/26/16812.full - you can check references [6,7] yourself. Edit: I apologize - since I did limit my rant to honeybees initially.

Honeybees are not native to the US. It would be odd to rely on a non-native species for our food supply.

To be clear, there were bees in North America before the European Honeybee was introduced, and they did the pollinating and still do today to a small extent, but the European variety is simply more productive and domesticated. That's not to say that native bee species still around are anymore resistant to this systemic pesticide. You're splitting hairs here.
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