Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

city-journal.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 123 posts

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#21

Post by fche »

rectang wrote: post #12
omegaworks wrote: post #7

The primary source at the top of their article, Susan Dyer Reynolds, is not an expert in any way but editor-in-chief of the Marina Times, an independent community newspaper . I wouldn't trust a single word out of this NIMBY's mouth. Why they chose to lead with her and quote her like she's an authority on the subject is beyond reason.

> Why they chose to lead with her Because it's super important for political reasons that San Francisco be seen as failing. It's the same phenomenon as perception of the national economy: if you don't like who's in power, you think the economy is poor.

How would you support the proposition that San Francisco is not failing, or is even flourishing?

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#22

Post by wpietri »

Crime's definitely a problem here, but parts of this strike me as exaggerated. I live in the Mission, and have for almost 20 years. I don't think crime is noticeably worse. This is also the first time I've heard a claim that crime is a significant reason for stores closing. When I talk with actual business owners, the big reasons are 1) massive rent increases, and b) difficulty finding staff at $15/hr.

As an example, Allan Beats, who has run the specialty sci-fi shop Borderlands Books, just closed down his adjoining cafe. He was clear about the problems, and crime doesn't come up: http://borderlands-books.blogspot.com/2019/04/borderlands-ca...

Or Lucca Ravioli, just down Valencia Street, closed on the same day. The owner was selling the building, and there's no way anybody could buy the business without having millions to buy the building too. In sum, it was real estate costs: https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/94-year-old-Lucca-R...

I absolutely agree that crime is a problem; I've had 7 bikes stolen over the years. I also agree that the insane rents guarantee people will end up on the streets, and homelessness is comorbid with addictions, which are often fed by crime. But this strikes me as overdramatic. It makes me wonder who funds the organization that produces this.

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#23

Post by the_snooze »

gibolt wrote: post #9

I generally agree with reduced sentences, if any at all, for minor offences. Once someone becomes a 3+ time offender, it is worth removing them from the street. The majority of cases are caused by a tiny number of people who do it serially because they can.

In Berkeley there's a woman on the streets who has a long history of assaults and property crimes. She obviously doesn't have the mental health care she desperately needs, but I feel the local government is giving up its legitimacy by keeping her on the streets and being all "surprised Pikachu" when she whacks a stranger over the head with a tree branch.

https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/11/01/woman-arrested-in-do...

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#24

Post by fche »

Causality1 wrote: post #13

>“We could be keeping them and be giving services while they’re in jail,” says Fabbri. “It could really be effective. >we’re not solving our problems when we pretend low-level crimes aren’t important. Those two facts are the crux of the issue. Prisons do not rehabilitate criminals; they just restrain them. Couple that with the fact it costs, on nationwide average, $84 per day to incarcerate someone and the average pe…

A daily theft of $84 per day has much more than $84/day of cost in terms of corrosion of social trust. A government payout cannot fix that - heck it makes it worse.

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#25

Post by NotSammyHagar »

immichaelwang wrote: post #8

I've wondered if what San Francisco needs is a Rudy Giuliani type mayor. Someone to come in a shake up the status quo with valid right leaning polices when it comes to crime.

The US crime rate went down when Rudy was mayor, because in part the population age bubble of the baby boomers among others got older. Crime rates went down all over the us, conservative or liberal mayors.

A thing that also happened with the police doing almost certainly illegal frisking of people on the street in nyc was that they disproportionately were doing this to minorities - this is hugely damaging to our democracy. I think conservatives are mostly white people and they don't see it happening to them,or if it did rarely they were treated better because they are probably white. If you are a young black man and this happens many times it really hurts your psyche, makes you mad.

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#26

Post by immichaelwang »

rayiner wrote: post #19
immichaelwang wrote: post #8

I've wondered if what San Francisco needs is a Rudy Giuliani type mayor. Someone to come in a shake up the status quo with valid right leaning polices when it comes to crime.

Rudy Giuliani certainly deserves a lot of credit for cleaning up New York City--as US Attorney when he dismantled the Mafia. Whether his policies as mayor were effective is highly debated.

Agreed. But it's not like the current policies, some of which include blatantly not enforcing laws, are working.

Giuliani was also a prolific mayor when it come to building housing.

I don't think any right leaning or even centrist political candidate in SF could withstand the inevitable smear campaign that far leftist groups would organize against them.

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#27

Post by DevKoala »

In SF, there is major organized crime. It’s very obvious. I remember that during my first year in SF, a travel bag was found with a man mutilated inside.

I live in a cheap studio in the Mission to save on rent. The things I see remind me of my childhood in South America. I just wonder when the kidnappings will start.

Also, even professionals have lost all respect for the city. People with a six figure salary urinating on the streets, why?

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#28

Post by hirundo »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #3

Going to be there next week. Lived there twenty years ago. Haven't spent much time in the city since. All I hear is horror stories. I hope everything is ok? I was going to try to break in my new hiking boots after work each day. Any suggestion on safe places to walk with my pack on? I'm camping in Montana the following week.

Marin Headlands, right over the Golden Gate. It's beautiful and fabulously underused.

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#30

Post by immichaelwang »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #25
immichaelwang wrote: post #8

I've wondered if what San Francisco needs is a Rudy Giuliani type mayor. Someone to come in a shake up the status quo with valid right leaning polices when it comes to crime.

The US crime rate went down when Rudy was mayor, because in part the population age bubble of the baby boomers among others got older. Crime rates went down all over the us, conservative or liberal mayors. A thing that also happened with the police doing almost certainly illegal frisking of people on the street in nyc was that they disproportionately were doing this to minorities - this is hugely damaging to our demo…

Absolutely some policies went too far.

But the current status quo of not enforcing laws isn't working either.

Post reply on HN