Announcing Rust 1.35.0 • Hacker News Board

Re: Announcing Rust 1.35.0

#21

Post by faryang1111 » Thu, May 23, 2019, 9:27 PM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #16

faryang1111 wrote: post #12

I no longer care about Rust anymore because of their lang team's await syntax decision process. It seems the team only cares about satisfying themselves rather than listening to the community's concern. Whenever users spoke about problems proposed by the team, they simply dismissed them saying the concern doesn't contain any new information. With this lang team, I think Rust is going to die quickly. It doesn't worth…

For anyone playing along at home, when the async/await RFC was accepted, it left the final syntax of "await" to be decided before stabilization. That was a little over a year ago. There was some debate, but it's been under pretty intense debate since at least November of last year. This has been the most discussed aspect of Rust ever. The tracking issue has 296 comments. There have been numerous threads on the intern…

How useful are these discussions? In the end, boats still prefers prefix and others still prefer postfix. This is pretty fake discussion. Everyone already has a position and pretend to be open to discussion.

Re: Announcing Rust 1.35.0

#22

Post by Cogitri » Thu, May 23, 2019, 9:28 PM UTC

jakobdabo wrote: post #19

Coming from C/C++. Is working with the online package manager (Cargo?) mandatory? Or is there a sustainable way of working/developing with Rust while completely offline? I'd like to start a project, manually import libraries (downloaded manually, no dependency hell), read documentation, etc. Is it possible?

See cargo-vendor for offline functionality

Re: Announcing Rust 1.35.0

#23

Post by steveklabnik » Thu, May 23, 2019, 9:30 PM UTC

faryang1111 wrote: post #21

steveklabnik wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone playing along at home, when the async/await RFC was accepted, it left the final syntax of "await" to be decided before stabilization. That was a little over a year ago. There was some debate, but it's been under pretty intense debate since at least November of last year. This has been the most discussed aspect of Rust ever. The tracking issue has 296 comments. There have been numerous threads on the intern…

How useful are these discussions? In the end, boats still prefers prefix and others still prefer postfix. This is pretty fake discussion. Everyone already has a position and pretend to be open to discussion.

They exposed all the options. That’s very useful. They made their case. That’s very useful.

This is the most discussed feature of Rust ever. The team spent a lot of time and energy on it, way way way more than any other feature. Several team members flip flopped positions several times.

Re: Announcing Rust 1.35.0

#24

Post by jkarneges » Thu, May 23, 2019, 9:30 PM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #16

faryang1111 wrote: post #12

I no longer care about Rust anymore because of their lang team's await syntax decision process. It seems the team only cares about satisfying themselves rather than listening to the community's concern. Whenever users spoke about problems proposed by the team, they simply dismissed them saying the concern doesn't contain any new information. With this lang team, I think Rust is going to die quickly. It doesn't worth…

For anyone playing along at home, when the async/await RFC was accepted, it left the final syntax of "await" to be decided before stabilization. That was a little over a year ago. There was some debate, but it's been under pretty intense debate since at least November of last year. This has been the most discussed aspect of Rust ever. The tracking issue has 296 comments. There have been numerous threads on the intern…

Most of the arguments may not be new, but given the overwhelming reaction to the recent blog post, I think it would be worth reflecting on that reaction and seeing if there isn't a reasonable way for the crowd to be heard.

For example, I don't know if this was a new idea or an old one, but standardizing the general concept of dot-keyword before following through with dot-await, even if it ultimately doesn't change the decision, would make the decision easier to swallow (for me).

Re: Announcing Rust 1.35.0

#25

Post by asdkhadsj » Thu, May 23, 2019, 9:30 PM UTC

jakobdabo wrote: post #19

Coming from C/C++. Is working with the online package manager (Cargo?) mandatory? Or is there a sustainable way of working/developing with Rust while completely offline? I'd like to start a project, manually import libraries (downloaded manually, no dependency hell), read documentation, etc. Is it possible?

You can define local path or remote git repos as dependencies if you like. That does involve Cargo of course, but if you choose it should theoretically not leave your firewall.

Also, you can run a local copy of all the documentation in all the repos pretty easily too.

Huge asterisk: I've never tested any phone-homes, if that is what you're worried about. But, it can be pretty offline-friendly.

Re: Announcing Rust 1.35.0

#26

Post by steveklabnik » Thu, May 23, 2019, 9:33 PM UTC

jkarneges wrote: post #24

steveklabnik wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone playing along at home, when the async/await RFC was accepted, it left the final syntax of "await" to be decided before stabilization. That was a little over a year ago. There was some debate, but it's been under pretty intense debate since at least November of last year. This has been the most discussed aspect of Rust ever. The tracking issue has 296 comments. There have been numerous threads on the intern…

Most of the arguments may not be new, but given the overwhelming reaction to the recent blog post, I think it would be worth reflecting on that reaction and seeing if there isn't a reasonable way for the crowd to be heard. For example, I don't know if this was a new idea or an old one, but standardizing the general concept of dot-keyword before following through with dot-await, even if it ultimately doesn't change th…

The crowd was heard. There are also many people who are in favor of the syntax that was chosen! This is not a situation where the community is overwhelmingly settled on one thing and the team is settled on another.

Yes, that has been discussed. It hasn’t been committed to in any way.

Re: Announcing Rust 1.35.0

#27

Post by mrbonner » Thu, May 23, 2019, 9:38 PM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #20

jakobdabo wrote: post #19

Coming from C/C++. Is working with the online package manager (Cargo?) mandatory? Or is there a sustainable way of working/developing with Rust while completely offline? I'd like to start a project, manually import libraries (downloaded manually, no dependency hell), read documentation, etc. Is it possible?

Cargo can work offline. It’s a requirement of the Firefox and Debian build systems, for example. You can also use rustc without cargo if you really want, but Cargo is really good, so I don’t particularly recommend it.

Does that mean it only needs internet for the first build. And then, subsequent builds won’t need internet connection (if I don’t add new dependencies, of course), kind of like Maven?

Re: Announcing Rust 1.35.0

#28

Post by sanxiyn » Thu, May 23, 2019, 9:38 PM UTC

jakobdabo wrote: post #19

Coming from C/C++. Is working with the online package manager (Cargo?) mandatory? Or is there a sustainable way of working/developing with Rust while completely offline? I'd like to start a project, manually import libraries (downloaded manually, no dependency hell), read documentation, etc. Is it possible?

You can work completely offline. All official tools support it.

Rust team can't do much about ecosystem though. There are some libraries which download resource (say, large data table) over the network at build time. I consider these bugs, but maintainers of those libraries may disagree.

Re: Announcing Rust 1.35.0

#29

Post by codetrotter » Thu, May 23, 2019, 9:38 PM UTC

jakobdabo wrote: post #19

Coming from C/C++. Is working with the online package manager (Cargo?) mandatory? Or is there a sustainable way of working/developing with Rust while completely offline? I'd like to start a project, manually import libraries (downloaded manually, no dependency hell), read documentation, etc. Is it possible?

> is there a sustainable way of working/developing with Rust while completely offline?

Yes. Once you have downloaded your dependencies the first time while online you are able to work with them completely offline.

> read documentation

Rust docs:

rustup downloads docs for Rust itself alongside the toolchain when you download it.

`rustup doc --book` will open the locally downloaded copy of the book The Rust Programming Language in your browser.

`rustup doc` will open the locally downloaded copy of the overview of Rust Documentation in your browser. The locally downloaded docs include things like the docs for the Rust Standard Library.

Project and dependencies docs:

`cargo doc --open' will build the docs for your project and for your dependencies as offline HTML files and open the locally build docs in your web browser for you.

Subsequently running the same command while offline will open the already built docs in your web browser again.

You will find the built docs under target/doc/ in your project. This includes the docs for your dependencies and their dependencies and so on.

And even if you delete the built docs, for example by running `cargo clean', cargo can rebuild the docs offline because it has cached the source code of your dependencies and their dependencies and so on.

> manually import libraries (downloaded manually, no dependency hell)

Rather than attempt to do it manually I would advice that you run `cargo build' once while online, so that your dependencies are fetched and made available offline. Attempting to do it completely manually has no benefit that I can see and would only serve to waste time and probably introduce problems that would not happen if you leave it to cargo to fetch it all for you.

And you can write crates of your own locally, never publish them online and import them by relative local path.

Re: Announcing Rust 1.35.0

#30

Post by sanxiyn » Thu, May 23, 2019, 9:38 PM UTC

mrbonner wrote: post #27

steveklabnik wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cargo can work offline. It’s a requirement of the Firefox and Debian build systems, for example. You can also use rustc without cargo if you really want, but Cargo is really good, so I don’t particularly recommend it.

Does that mean it only needs internet for the first build. And then, subsequent builds won’t need internet connection (if I don’t add new dependencies, of course), kind of like Maven?

No, you can do everything, including the first build, offline.