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Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#21

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

Causality1 wrote: post #17

Personally I think this is a matter of translation. In English the personal name comes first followed by the surname. In Japanese honorifics come after the name but it would be quite silly to ask foreign media to call Abe Shinzo "Abe Shinzo Mr." instead of "Mr. Abe Shinzo" or for an American to ask British media to not refer to American mothers as "mum". Sometimes localizing a name means altering it.

But we don't usually reorder Chinese and Korean names, and before the Meiji era Japanese names weren't reordered (or rather, we don't reorder the names of historical figures!?), so it's Tokugawa Ieyasu not Ieyasu Tokugawa.

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#22

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

stordoff wrote: post #5

What I find interesting is that there are exceptions to the current practice in English. Yoko Taro (family name: Yoko) is known widely as Yoko Taro, yet most other Japanese game developers are known as GivenName FamilyName (in English). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoko_Taro

Hatsune Miku and her fellow vocaloids also seem to be an exception. They're not real people of course, but they may as well be here.

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#23

Post by azinman2 »

knolax wrote: post #19

Why can't we just write names as "Smith, John" when it's in the Asian order and "John Smith" or "John·Smith" if its in the Western order? It would remove all the ambiguity using already existing conventions.

Because the comma breaks English grammar when it’s in the middle of a sentence.

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#24

Post by falsedan »

knolax wrote: post #19

Why can't we just write names as "Smith, John" when it's in the Asian order and "John Smith" or "John·Smith" if its in the Western order? It would remove all the ambiguity using already existing conventions.

It disregards the cultural history of names to suit what’s easiest for Western Europeans to understand.

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#25

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #20
wccrawford wrote: post #12

Did this article put his given name first, despite being about him asking that the media put the family name first? I wonder if he finds that as frustrating as I do.

It looks like it. From his wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar%C5%8D_K%C5%8Dno it looks like his father's name is Yōhei Kōno which which suggests that Kono is his family name.

You can also just read the Japanese pronunciation in brackets :)

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#26

Post by bitwize »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #22
stordoff wrote: post #5

What I find interesting is that there are exceptions to the current practice in English. Yoko Taro (family name: Yoko) is known widely as Yoko Taro, yet most other Japanese game developers are known as GivenName FamilyName (in English). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoko_Taro

Hatsune Miku and her fellow vocaloids also seem to be an exception. They're not real people of course, but they may as well be here.

I always thought Miku was her given name.

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#28

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

xxpor wrote: post #2

English should adopt the French convention of capitalizing the family (last) name. For example, this would make it ABE Shinzo, which would remove ambiguity. When encountering East (thanks for the reminder) Asian (or Hungarian, for that matter) names in emails for example, I'm usually worried about if their "last" name in the directory is their given name and what they should be addressed by or their actual last name.

The European Parliament uses this convention because not every EU country puts surnames last, in particular Hungary doesn't.

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#29

Post by pbhjpbhj »

jlv2 wrote: post #14
xxpor wrote: post #2

English should adopt the French convention of capitalizing the family (last) name. For example, this would make it ABE Shinzo, which would remove ambiguity. When encountering East (thanks for the reminder) Asian (or Hungarian, for that matter) names in emails for example, I'm usually worried about if their "last" name in the directory is their given name and what they should be addressed by or their actual last name.

My last name is mixed case, so capitalizing it makes it wrong.

Wrong, or contrary to your preferred style?

I see names like Macdonald and MacDonald, where one family prefers the mid-capitalisation to another or family names like De Havilland. But it seems like a reasonable disambiguation to capitalise a family name.

Could you be more specific about what makes it "wrong".

FWIW my family name is commonly misspelt, life is too short to get too hung up about it. In my case it's just a name that existed prior to English standardisation.

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#30

Post by philwelch »

jlv2 wrote: post #14
xxpor wrote: post #2

English should adopt the French convention of capitalizing the family (last) name. For example, this would make it ABE Shinzo, which would remove ambiguity. When encountering East (thanks for the reminder) Asian (or Hungarian, for that matter) names in emails for example, I'm usually worried about if their "last" name in the directory is their given name and what they should be addressed by or their actual last name.

My last name is mixed case, so capitalizing it makes it wrong.

Perhaps adjusting the capitalization, e.g. McMILLAN rather than MCMILLAN?
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