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Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

joshcarter.com

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Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#21

Post by hjk05 »

spyspy wrote: post #3

> So, your code isn’t working, what do you do? Stare blankly at the monitor? This always gets me. When the interviewer asks a question, the correct answer is literally never, “let me think about it quietly for a moment”. This is one of the disconnects between interview programming and real programming people get frustrated over.

Well of cause you can think quietly about it, but you in an interview situation so you need to communicate that’s what your doing. Literally just saying “hmm, that should not happen, let me think about what’s going on” is all it takes.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#22

Post by SamReidHughes »

larkeith wrote: post #12

Most of this is good, but one real WTF: "Editor Flailing It’s funny how many people can’t edit text on any machine but their own. I tend to interview people on a laptop running Ubuntu, and I open gedit for them to use, with the offer that they can use any other Unix editor they like. Most can barely navigate gedit, and it’s stupid simple. Don’t ever let yourself get hung up on the editor. If you can’t figure out the…

I don’t know, I’ve found in my experience with some people that being only able to operate productively in a very particular setup is a real negative signal. And you’re giving the article a very inaccurate reading.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#23

Post by wccrawford »

bitL wrote: post #10

- "Hey, I worked at FAANG or better, creating latest super-duper tech you use daily, was featured on TV, got multiple awards etc." - "Let's see if you can do Fizz Buzz!"

I worked with a guy that had FAANG on his resume, and we ended up letting him go because he couldn't actually do real programming for a device from that same company. He flailed for months to get simple things done, and failed.

Just having worked somewhere doesn't mean you actually did well there.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#24

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

emidln wrote: post #16
larkeith wrote: post #12

Most of this is good, but one real WTF: "Editor Flailing It’s funny how many people can’t edit text on any machine but their own. I tend to interview people on a laptop running Ubuntu, and I open gedit for them to use, with the offer that they can use any other Unix editor they like. Most can barely navigate gedit, and it’s stupid simple. Don’t ever let yourself get hung up on the editor. If you can’t figure out the…

This is a great reason to learn vi for basic editing tasks. It's everywhere. Even if you typically use a different editor/ide, vi is a common ground. Disclosure: I'm an emacs user

It’s kind of weird to NOT know basic vi/vim if you get to a certain point in your career. If you can’t at least open the software, go into insert mode, and save/quit, have you ever had to ssh into a remote server and edit a config file before? Only excuse I could think of is if you literally did everything in windows for your entire career.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#25

Post by rootsofallevil »

mooreds wrote: post #15
retrac98 wrote: post #5

Some people completely blank when they’re under examination like conditions. It doesn’t make them bad programmers.

Sure, agreed. Except in very special circumstances (devrel, prod system admin, startup first hires) the ability to think clearly under pressure isn't key to success as a developer. That's why I think that a paid take home test is the best way to understand how someone can program. But the job of an interviewer is to get data any way they can, and the job of the interviewee is to provide that data as best they can. Fo…

Interestingly, I've heard people say: if you can't code under pressure then you might not be a good fit here, to which my reply has always been:

If day to day coding in your company generates my interview level of anxiety and stress then you are 100% right that I would not be a good fit and you are doing me a favour by not hiring me.

The problem is that some people don't realise just how stressful interviews can be due to them not suffering that level of stress, anxiety etc. so it's difficult for them to see themselves in that position.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#26

Post by trickstra »

mooreds wrote: post #8
trickstra wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think saying "let me think about it for a moment" is perfectly acceptable. yes, you do, but many interviewers don't and that's the problem

Ah, but then you have a great data point, no? If someone cuts you off when you are interviewing, how will they treat you when you are an employee? The information flow goes both ways.

These are usually agency interviewers or HR people. Sure, I'd definitely take that into account if this was interview with IT lead, but you don't get to that before going through this programming task with some HR guy. They will then pass your solution to some devs for assessment, because they don't understand it. But they are the gatekeepers.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#27

Post by hdra »

larkeith wrote: post #12

Most of this is good, but one real WTF: "Editor Flailing It’s funny how many people can’t edit text on any machine but their own. I tend to interview people on a laptop running Ubuntu, and I open gedit for them to use, with the offer that they can use any other Unix editor they like. Most can barely navigate gedit, and it’s stupid simple. Don’t ever let yourself get hung up on the editor. If you can’t figure out the…

I think thats what the article is trying to say with that second paragraph. Don't worry about how to use the editor the "right" way and just focus on the getting the code to work with whats available, which he pretty much confirmed in the third paragraph by mentioning how he hired someone who struggled with the editor but got the job done anyway.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#28

Post by ubersoldat2k7 »

mooreds wrote: post #4
spyspy wrote: post #3

> So, your code isn’t working, what do you do? Stare blankly at the monitor? This always gets me. When the interviewer asks a question, the correct answer is literally never, “let me think about it quietly for a moment”. This is one of the disconnects between interview programming and real programming people get frustrated over.

Hmm. The point of an interview isn't for an applicant just to solve the problem, it's to prove they can solve the problem. I think saying "let me think about it for a moment" is perfectly acceptable. But going quiet without guiding the interviewer is not communicating what your plan is. Not saying interviewing isn't broken in a myriad of ways, but asking a candidate to talk through their process to illuminate it isn'…

I have had such hard times with this. I find it very hard to think about the problem and to think what to say to this person without fucking up the interview.

I mean, you don't want to say: "I'm going to trial & error this shit while the fucking compiler builds and the stupid tests say it works" which is how must programming is done anyway.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#29

Post by hjk05 »

bitL wrote: post #10

- "Hey, I worked at FAANG or better, creating latest super-duper tech you use daily, was featured on TV, got multiple awards etc." - "Let's see if you can do Fizz Buzz!"

Yes, and if your interviewing for a sales position they might ask you to “Sell me this pen”. It’s a trivial task for someone experienced, so why take issue with it?

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#30

Post by npstr »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #24
emidln wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great reason to learn vi for basic editing tasks. It's everywhere. Even if you typically use a different editor/ide, vi is a common ground. Disclosure: I'm an emacs user

It’s kind of weird to NOT know basic vi/vim if you get to a certain point in your career. If you can’t at least open the software, go into insert mode, and save/quit, have you ever had to ssh into a remote server and edit a config file before? Only excuse I could think of is if you literally did everything in windows for your entire career.

What's wrong with using nano for that?
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