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VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

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Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#21

Post by adamvalve »

nickbarnwell wrote: post #16
mft_ wrote: post #7

Interesting (and great that the bigger manufacturers are starting to come through with their electric offerings) but the price:range ratio doesn't seem great compared to the Tesla model 3? It's hard to be objective with all of the strongly pro- and anti-Tesla nonsense flying around, but I've had a sneaking suspicion for a while that once the market matures a little (with eg Audi, VW, Porsche all offering their first-…

The least expensive Model 3 in Germany is 57.900 EUR with 540km (wltp cycle) of range – part of this is that they've only been exporting the high margin long-range AWD models. The more expensive "First Edition" id.3 will have approx 425km of range for 35.000 > x Plus, you probably get a better interior. Certainly a better built one…

If the interior is anything like my Tiguan... I would greatly prefer my Model 3 any day. I don't think the ID3 is going to come with a premium interior... haven't seen any photos of it so I could be wrong.

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#23

Post by jdietrich »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #10

I've seen a few e-golf's charging on the streets in the past few weeks in Berlin. I assume these are pre-production models. Looks like a normal Golf aside from the charging port. From my understanding, this is a big step for VW. However, short term, they will likely have range and production capacity issues, just like Tesla did not exactly hit the ground running. I would not be surprised if this is merely a stop gap…

>Short term, Tesla could really make VW hurt by ramping up production and dropping price and competing with both their ICE and non ICE offerings.

That's a very big could. Tesla have an advantage in terms of battery availability, but they simply don't have the expertise and the experience to build cars at real scale. Tesla are literally building cars as fast as they can, but they've still got a multi-year backlog of orders. Their defect rate is the worst in the industry by some margin and they have a huge amount of catching up to do.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-hit-model-3-target-by-...

VW have been planning this for years, they have decades of experience in auto manufacturing, they have a proven record of quality and efficiency, and they can scale up very quickly. If they can get a reliable supply of batteries, they aren't bottlenecked by production capacity in any meaningful way. The real challenge for VW is almost certainly marketing - they have a very large dealer base that needs to be retrained in how to sell EVs and they don't have the viral cachet of Tesla.

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#24

Post by Shivetya »

adamvalve wrote: post #21
nickbarnwell wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The least expensive Model 3 in Germany is 57.900 EUR with 540km (wltp cycle) of range – part of this is that they've only been exporting the high margin long-range AWD models. The more expensive "First Edition" id.3 will have approx 425km of range for 35.000 > x Plus, you probably get a better interior. Certainly a better built one…

If the interior is anything like my Tiguan... I would greatly prefer my Model 3 any day. I don't think the ID3 is going to come with a premium interior... haven't seen any photos of it so I could be wrong.

Some pictures captured of the Seat version of the ID.3 match up very well with glimpses of the ID.3 interior.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/seat/100354/new-seat-el-born-c...

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#25

Post by _ph_ »

nickbarnwell wrote: post #16
mft_ wrote: post #7

Interesting (and great that the bigger manufacturers are starting to come through with their electric offerings) but the price:range ratio doesn't seem great compared to the Tesla model 3? It's hard to be objective with all of the strongly pro- and anti-Tesla nonsense flying around, but I've had a sneaking suspicion for a while that once the market matures a little (with eg Audi, VW, Porsche all offering their first-…

The least expensive Model 3 in Germany is 57.900 EUR with 540km (wltp cycle) of range – part of this is that they've only been exporting the high margin long-range AWD models. The more expensive "First Edition" id.3 will have approx 425km of range for 35.000 > x Plus, you probably get a better interior. Certainly a better built one…

Since shortly, also the short range+ model is available for 45k, so getting much closer to the VW price.

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#26

Post by thinkmassive »

gtirloni wrote: post #8

I'm completely clueless about electric engines so I was wondering if, besides range, there are other attributes one should look for in an electric car like HP and that kind of stuff? In other words, are all electric motors so similar that range is the only differentiator?

The amount and rate of energy that can be delivered from the battery to the wheels probably depends more on the power electronics than the motor. Obviously the motor will overheat at some point, but I would bet the power converters and interconnects would fail much earlier except on very high performance models.

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#27

Post by _ph_ »

mises wrote: post #18

[

Recharging with fast chargers, e.g. superchargers, should take between 30-40 minutes. And ranges over 300 miles are available too, so a lot of use cases are already covered, and things are getting better still. So the reasonable audience for electric cars is already much larger than the current market share.

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#29

Post by jcfrei »

mises wrote: post #18

[

With the newer 350kW charging stations you can charge up to 80% in about 15 minutes (ie. for a Model S battery). So not much more than filling up with gas. Granted cars which support this will be available at the earliest next year.

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#30

Post by Shivetya »

gtirloni wrote: post #8

I'm completely clueless about electric engines so I was wondering if, besides range, there are other attributes one should look for in an electric car like HP and that kind of stuff? In other words, are all electric motors so similar that range is the only differentiator?

Range Battery Cooling technology, steer clear of air cooled Charging rates Weight Cd

From my view weight is the big limiting factor in EV efficiency at lower speeds and Cd becomes more important as you increase your speed to highway numbers and higher.

Engines are important as the company Munro pointed out during their tear downs. They stated that Tesla had by far the most impressive EV motor they have seen based around how they implemented the magnets and their inverter work finally coupled to a battery solution that proved naysayers wrong.

That out of the way, I would not fret over motor differences. It all comes down to, if it passes the initial three features I listed about then concern yourself with, do you like how it looks, how it drives, and does it fit in your lifestyle. In no shape or form think you will save money parting with your current vehicle for a new one however if you already were decided to change cars and EV may fit your lifestyle.

There is a good possibility many EVs will be rear drive which will greatly improve driving dynamics, the ease of packaging opens up many options

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