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Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#21

Post by phs318u »

c22 wrote: post #16
perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

If the system isn't working that implies that there aren't enough committed individuals to change it. If we can't get enough people to work on fixing our relatively simple human-built systems it seems unlikely that they will have sufficient impact on the much larger and more complex natural systems of global health. So while these suggestions are great, I do think we should continue to focus on, explore, and advocate…

It's not so much that there aren't enough individuals that are committed to change. I think it's partly that people would rather do than be done unto (the feeling of controlling your destiny rather than being controlled), and partly that people can be gamed to act against their own long term interest (ironically being controlled into thinking you're in control when you aren't).

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#22

Post by perfunctory »

icelancer wrote: post #17
perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

>> Stop flying to conferences This is not tenable for executive-level staffers. >> Reduce your meat consumption as much as you can. This is definitely an impactful idea, specifically red meat by quite a large difference comparative to other meats. >> If you have any investments shift them from fossil to green. This is not really a tenable suggestion either unless you are suggesting everyone take a giant hit to yield…

> This is not really a tenable suggestion either unless you are suggesting everyone take a giant hit to yield

Some believe divestment won't have significant impact on returns: http://www.lse.ac.uk/GranthamInstitute/news/the-mythical-per...

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#23

Post by save_ferris »

perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

The problem with individual action is that it requires a collective effort to make such sacrifices worth it, and most people aren’t willing able to make all or any of those sacrifices.

For example: one cannot simply replace air travel with trains in the US. Amtrak is wholly inadequate to act in an interstate commuter transport capacity in the vast majority of the US.

Also, I’m not at a point in my career where I can afford to work part time. Part time software engineering jobs are hard to find in the US, and part time jobs don’t provide benefits like healthcare.

Individuals are going to look at this and say “why should I make these sacrifices when I know that others aren’t going to make them?”

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#24

Post by perfunctory »

c22 wrote: post #16
perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

If the system isn't working that implies that there aren't enough committed individuals to change it. If we can't get enough people to work on fixing our relatively simple human-built systems it seems unlikely that they will have sufficient impact on the much larger and more complex natural systems of global health. So while these suggestions are great, I do think we should continue to focus on, explore, and advocate…

> I do think we should continue to focus on, explore, and advocate for broader systemic change.

Absolutely agree. It's not either/or. We need both. But hey, it's easier to advocate for systemic change if you lead by example. See e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/26/greta-th...

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#25

Post by perfunctory »

icelancer wrote: post #17
perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

>> Stop flying to conferences This is not tenable for executive-level staffers. >> Reduce your meat consumption as much as you can. This is definitely an impactful idea, specifically red meat by quite a large difference comparative to other meats. >> If you have any investments shift them from fossil to green. This is not really a tenable suggestion either unless you are suggesting everyone take a giant hit to yield…

> This is not tenable for executive-level staffers.

Well, if we don't go (as in the entire development community) then the executive-level staffers have nothing to do there either.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#26

Post by crispinb »

zpeti wrote: post #18
perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

This. And also: The environment is an awesome way for people to virtue signal how much they care. But the fact is the real world consequences of what most environmentalists ask for would seriously affect the way of life they have. Politicians know this. Any serious attempt to change anything will not get you votes and out of government. That is not the governments fault. That is not the corporations fault. That is ev…

> it's INSANE

And the death of our living planet isn't? So-called 'economic growth' was never much more than a global entropy increase, as high quality self-organising evolved systems were ripped out to feed crude technological ones requiring endless inputs.

This was always mere borrowing against the future. It was never 'growth' in any true sense. It ends because biology, chemistry & physics say it must, regardless of human pouting.

We could perhaps 3 or 4 decades ago have made a collective decision to gradually reduce consumption and allow our home to survive in decent enough shape to sustain us. Or maybe it was a biological fait accompli that any species evolving capacities to escape population limits and spread like a devastating weed across the world would eventually outstip the world's capacity to absorb the change. We'll probably never know which.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#27

Post by rypskar »

pojzon wrote: post #20
c22 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the system isn't working that implies that there aren't enough committed individuals to change it. If we can't get enough people to work on fixing our relatively simple human-built systems it seems unlikely that they will have sufficient impact on the much larger and more complex natural systems of global health. So while these suggestions are great, I do think we should continue to focus on, explore, and advocate…

Im afraid nothing will change to the moment people start dying because of climate change effects. And by that i mean at leadt hundreds of ppl of not thousends. Fastest move would happen if what im talking about did happen in 1st world countries. Thats sad masses need such a strong shake up.

That might be optimistic. The pessimistic version is that the 1st world would not react before it starts to see a large scale migration from developing countries because of climate change, and the first reaction would be to close the borders.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#28

Post by dsgriffin »

perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

> Reduce your meat consumption as much as you can. Don't go all the way vegan

Why not go vegan/vegetarian? Most people who do handle it perfectly fine, unless there's another reason for suggesting this?

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#29

Post by gambler »

dsgriffin wrote: post #28
perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

> Reduce your meat consumption as much as you can. Don't go all the way vegan Why not go vegan/vegetarian? Most people who do handle it perfectly fine, unless there's another reason for suggesting this?

Because most people who go 100% vegetarian break down and go back to eating meat anyway. Better be 98% vegetarian for decades than 100% vegetarian for a year.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#30

Post by perfunctory »

save_ferris wrote: post #23
perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

The problem with individual action is that it requires a collective effort to make such sacrifices worth it, and most people aren’t willing able to make all or any of those sacrifices. For example: one cannot simply replace air travel with trains in the US. Amtrak is wholly inadequate to act in an interstate commuter transport capacity in the vast majority of the US. Also, I’m not at a point in my career where I can…

That's kind of the point. Stop thinking about "most people". Do it for yourself. If you believe in the climate emergency that is. You might be pleasantly surprised to see your friends around you follow the suit.
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