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It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

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Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#21

Post by badfrog »

Tor3 wrote: post #12

Well.. this assumes that coding (all coding?) is a burden.. I agree with the article in that coding _for_ work, outside of normal work hours, isn't something to strive for. I did that a lot when I was young, but that was not only when it was necessary due to the strained time schedules we had then, it was also because I literally hungered for it. I needed to. So I would go back to work after dinner and hack away to f…

If that's what you want to do with your time, cool. This article is aimed at people who don't want to do that but feel like they have to.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#22

Post by ilikehurdles »

barry-cotter wrote: post #7
badfrog wrote: post #3

Anecdotally, I've been a professional software engineer for around 10 years at top tech companies. I'm currently have similar pay and seniority as a Google L6. I've very rarely worked more than 9 hours in a day, and in those 10 years, I've spent less than 100 evenings coding on personal projects. So yeah, it's possible for sure.

That’s around $200,000 in cash and up to about double that in stock and bonus according to https://www.levels.fyi/ Most recently from Zürich, $448,000 210k Cash| 190k Stock 48k Bonus

Thanks for the explanation and link. I have no clue what levels at google are or correspond to.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#23

Post by [deleted] »

Tor3 wrote: post #12

Well.. this assumes that coding (all coding?) is a burden.. I agree with the article in that coding _for_ work, outside of normal work hours, isn't something to strive for. I did that a lot when I was young, but that was not only when it was necessary due to the strained time schedules we had then, it was also because I literally hungered for it. I needed to. So I would go back to work after dinner and hack away to f…

[deleted]

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#24

Post by fuball63 »

Semi related to this, if you do code after work (because you enjoy it), it's OK to code without it being a "startup".

I often get bogged down with "how do I monetize, market, and maintain this", which just kills my motivation. Just because something isn't marketed and monetized doesn't make it invalid; outside of work coding has brought me numerous benefits:

- Learning new things. Not because I feel like if I don't I'll fall behind, but because I like learning things I don't get to experience at work.

- Expressing yourself. I like being able to execute on my vision without worrying about what my employer wants. Or, if its a game I'm making, using that coding to express an artistic vision.

- Meeting people. You can still talk about your project at meetups or online without trying to "sell" it.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#25

Post by dazzawazza »

huffmsa wrote: post #18

Does a lawyer do law outside of billable hours? Some do pro-bono. But not the majority. Does a doctor practice medicine outside of his hours? Again, some work at free clinics, but generally no. Do veterinarians like it when you ask them to take a look at your cat when they're not in clinic? No. Almost always no. Work is work, leisure is leisure. If coding is leisure for you, that's great.

All of those professions do plenty of hours of "work" outside of "billable hours".

They all read professional publications in order to keep up with the progress their professions are making. In many cases this is a few hours a day of reading.

For most this is a chore but it's part of being a professional in those professions.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#26

Post by huffmsa »

boboguitar wrote: post #20
huffmsa wrote: post #18

Does a lawyer do law outside of billable hours? Some do pro-bono. But not the majority. Does a doctor practice medicine outside of his hours? Again, some work at free clinics, but generally no. Do veterinarians like it when you ask them to take a look at your cat when they're not in clinic? No. Almost always no. Work is work, leisure is leisure. If coding is leisure for you, that's great.

> Do veterinarians like it when you ask them to take a look at your cat when they're not in clinic? No. Almost always no. My wife(a vet) won't even let me tell people, that aren't very close to me, that she is a vet. It's ridiculous the amount of free advice she gets asked. The worst part about it is that she has had several classmates from vet school that have been sued(and lost) from the free advice they gave to ot…

I included the vet example because they're almost violent about not wanting to work outside of hours.

For the reason you stated. And some have told me that providing that kind of free advice devalues the profession and enables bad (read cheap) pet owners.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#27

Post by arkades »

huffmsa wrote: post #18

Does a lawyer do law outside of billable hours? Some do pro-bono. But not the majority. Does a doctor practice medicine outside of his hours? Again, some work at free clinics, but generally no. Do veterinarians like it when you ask them to take a look at your cat when they're not in clinic? No. Almost always no. Work is work, leisure is leisure. If coding is leisure for you, that's great.

> Does a doctor practice medicine outside of his hours? Again, some work at free clinics, but generally no.

Constantly. Besides being on formal call, there are informal consults texted or called in constantly, plus emergencies, plus friends-and-family consults. Plus paperwork for the patients you’ve seen very often takes longer than your “official” hours. And keeping up to date on the relevant literature is not something that happens during work hours.

Very very few docs stop working when their “hours” are up. And I’m not talking about exceptionally driven, ivy-festooned docs - I’m talking about the average schmoe you’d probably look down on.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#28

Post by huffmsa »

dazzawazza wrote: post #25
huffmsa wrote: post #18

Does a lawyer do law outside of billable hours? Some do pro-bono. But not the majority. Does a doctor practice medicine outside of his hours? Again, some work at free clinics, but generally no. Do veterinarians like it when you ask them to take a look at your cat when they're not in clinic? No. Almost always no. Work is work, leisure is leisure. If coding is leisure for you, that's great.

All of those professions do plenty of hours of "work" outside of "billable hours". They all read professional publications in order to keep up with the progress their professions are making. In many cases this is a few hours a day of reading. For most this is a chore but it's part of being a professional in those professions.

Reading papers isn't the same as doing the job though.

I read mostly technical content related to software dev / general tech, but I rarely create software outside of work.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#29

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

It's sad that this has to be said. I have lots of side projects that involve making stuff, music, electronics, restoring old computers and the like. Very occasionally these projects involve writing some code, but it's the exception rather than the rule.

If you want to write code for fun and it makes you happy then go for it! But by no means feel obliged to. It doesn't make you any more or less of a programmer.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#30

Post by angarg12 »

If I have a piece of advice to juniors about this is: burnout is real.

I used to have personal projects that didn't pay off in any way beyond personal learning, and they sure were taxing on my life.

Now I have a job that I enjoy and is challenging enough. For the last year I have been making a conscious effort to change how I deal with personal projects. I try to take on tasks that are low effort, and not feel guilty about dropping something if I feel that it doesn't work, or it's starting to require too much from me.

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