Why the doors to America are closing for Chinese tech students • Hacker News Board

Re: Why the doors to America are closing for Chinese tech students

#21

Post by da_chicken » Wed, May 01, 2019, 5:32 AM UTC

killjoywashere wrote: post #8

Who, exactly, doesn't understand that the US university system requires a certain number of grad students to have the research output it produces, and a great way to close that gap would be to improve secondary education in the US? Also, I have a bit of ill will toward US universities that turns down US students in favor of Chinese students. I'm looking at you, UCSD.

> Who, exactly, doesn't understand that the US university system requires a certain number of grad students to have the research output it produces, and a great way to close that gap would be to improve secondary education in the US?

Betsy DeVos.

Re: Why the doors to America are closing for Chinese tech students

#22

Post by Causality1 » Wed, May 01, 2019, 5:32 AM UTC

Wow, fuck that site. It literally won't let me read it in landscape orientation.

Re: Why the doors to America are closing for Chinese tech students

#23

Post by ralph84 » Wed, May 01, 2019, 5:32 AM UTC

If China didn't have a massive state-sponsored corporate espionage program these students would have a case. But China does, so the students are going to have to deal with the vetting required to make sure they aren't a part of it.

Re: Why the doors to America are closing for Chinese tech students

#24

Post by EchoAce » Wed, May 01, 2019, 5:33 AM UTC

rapsey wrote: post #20

godzillabrennus wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data shows that the wealthy Chinese are fleeing and the USA is gaining. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-30/millionai...

Why is that relevant? The US has always been a great place to live in if you are rich.

While that's vacuously true on account of the fact that being rich is fundamentally good no matter where you are, I'd argue that China is even better to live in if you're rich.

Re: Why the doors to America are closing for Chinese tech students

#25

Post by SamReidHughes » Wed, May 01, 2019, 5:40 AM UTC

killjoywashere wrote: post #8

Who, exactly, doesn't understand that the US university system requires a certain number of grad students to have the research output it produces, and a great way to close that gap would be to improve secondary education in the US? Also, I have a bit of ill will toward US universities that turns down US students in favor of Chinese students. I'm looking at you, UCSD.

There aren't many students fit for grad school (in the sciences) that are held back by poor secondary education. Obviously, some specialized programs could accelerate top kids farther, faster, but they're mostly already grad-school capable.

Re: Why the doors to America are closing for Chinese tech students

#26

Post by paxys » Wed, May 01, 2019, 5:40 AM UTC

EchoAce wrote: post #24

rapsey wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that relevant? The US has always been a great place to live in if you are rich.

While that's vacuously true on account of the fact that being rich is fundamentally good no matter where you are, I'd argue that China is even better to live in if you're rich.

Not if you value political freedom

Re: Why the doors to America are closing for Chinese tech students

#27

Post by Zarath » Wed, May 01, 2019, 5:41 AM UTC

rapsey wrote: post #11

Leary wrote: post #4

I wonder if Chinese tech students who are unable to find jobs in sensitive sector in America will have to return to China, leading to a reverse brain drain. The Chinese nuclear weapons program and missile program were both helped greatly when Qian Xuesen[1], one of the co-founder of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, returned to China during the Red Scare in the 1950s. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen

I think due to the US inability to fix fundamental issues with regards to upward mobility, education and a fuck you attitude on the world stage. Anything they do to counter China will only hasten the rise of China and their decline.

A vast majority of the Chinese international students I met in college were:

Already incredibly wealthy (if you think inequality is bad in the US, you should see Shanghai or other parts of China) and had no intentions of staying in the US and were just here for education. It was extremely common to see Chinese students driving around in BMWs, Mercedes, Audis, and very often nicer cars, and it became something of a stereotype with most of the people I knew. Not to mention my university was taxpayer funded.

Re: Why the doors to America are closing for Chinese tech students

#28

Post by paxys » Wed, May 01, 2019, 5:43 AM UTC

It is the same situation for Indian students, but due to visa and green card quotas and long processing delays. I'm hoping this leads to a boon for the Indian technology sector, which has already seen a resurgence over the last few years.

Re: Why the doors to America are closing for Chinese tech students

#29

Post by rapsey » Wed, May 01, 2019, 5:44 AM UTC

EchoAce wrote: post #24

rapsey wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that relevant? The US has always been a great place to live in if you are rich.

While that's vacuously true on account of the fact that being rich is fundamentally good no matter where you are, I'd argue that China is even better to live in if you're rich.

Rich in the US means best healthcare in the world, best education and eniterely risk free from political persecution.

Re: Why the doors to America are closing for Chinese tech students

#30

Post by sonnyblarney » Wed, May 01, 2019, 5:46 AM UTC

rapsey wrote: post #11

Leary wrote: post #4

I wonder if Chinese tech students who are unable to find jobs in sensitive sector in America will have to return to China, leading to a reverse brain drain. The Chinese nuclear weapons program and missile program were both helped greatly when Qian Xuesen[1], one of the co-founder of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, returned to China during the Red Scare in the 1950s. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen

I think due to the US inability to fix fundamental issues with regards to upward mobility, education and a fuck you attitude on the world stage. Anything they do to counter China will only hasten the rise of China and their decline.

The opposite: 'mobility' is the fundamental reason people leave their home country (China) to have a significantly better standard of living - which they do have.

Mobility problems are mostly for Americans, not for ex-pats.

Geopolitics is a little important, but for most people, it's about their job, their opportunity.

It's troublesome because 99% of US companies and Chinese ex-pats just want to do work and are getting caught up in geopolitics.

But to be fair: this is a real problem. Espionage, influence, interference is a thing. Here in Canada, the Chinese gov. is directly influential in student activities etc. - at Ryerson in Toronto, a young Tibetan woman was elected head of the student union and it met with fierce and organized resistance from Chinese students, supported by tentacles of the state. As a small example.

That said it'd be nice if there were better ways past this problem, because it's not a problem for most of us!