Apollo 15 postage stamp incident • Hacker News Board

Re: Apollo 15 postage stamp incident

#21

Post by chazzyluc » Wed, May 01, 2019, 1:04 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #6

> some said astronauts should not be allowed to reap personal profits from NASA missions. That's an interesting ethical question. At what point is it ok for someone who got paid by the government to do a job ok to make extra money because of that fact. These days most Presidents get to write books about their time in the White House and make money. Buzz Aldrin still goes to cons and signs autographs for money. So whe…

I don't think it was an issue of misuse of tax payer dollars or anything like that.

The point of allowing astronauts to bring personal items was to help keep their mental health stable and morale high over the course of an 8+ day journey in a very confined space under extreme stress. Having crew members thinking about how their side hustle was going to pan out when they got home would be a distraction and not in line with the goal of the personal item allocation.

Additionally, if it was left unchecked then future astronauts would have had to choose between bringing a picture of their loved ones or passing up on a financial bonus which would have led to a bad situation.

I can see why NASA cracked down on it pretty aggressively.

Re: Apollo 15 postage stamp incident

#22

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Re: Apollo 15 postage stamp incident

#23

Post by pests » Wed, May 01, 2019, 1:16 AM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #19

pests wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except some were unlisted. Then it's like installing 2RU when they only wanted you to install 1RU. Then you increased their fuel/energy/etc costs and increased the lives of others as there are now unvetted things in space/your rack.

I doubt that they didn't weigh the personal effects pouch accurate to within 1 gram beforehand, so whatever they brought, it was within the specified weight allowance.

In this case yes, but what if it did matter? What if something happened and they became loose or had a chemical that set off some sensor? There is probably more than just weight checks. Safety of ship, crew safety, imagery they wouldn't want on any footage or photographs, etc.

Some were declared; why weren't these? It is suspicious behavior. What else could have been brought on? What failures of process and policy allowed this to happen?

Re: Apollo 15 postage stamp incident

#24

Post by kalleboo » Wed, May 01, 2019, 2:21 AM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #14

codingdave wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't feel like the same situation. A better analogy would be running personal projects from your corporate servers, as you are using your professionally acquired access to resources you do not own for personal gain. There is little grey area there - unless you own the company, it isn't appropriate.

Not really - each astronaut was specifically given a weight allocation (in grams) for personal effects, to be chosen at their discretion, for non mission related minor cargo. It's more like your work giving you written permission for a free 1RU of space and 2 amps of power and a DIA feed described for a personal test/development/project server, you installing a personally owned 1RU server in it and doing something us…

It's more like your work giving you written permission for a free 1RU of space and 2 amps of power and a DIA feed described for a personal test/development/project server, and you turning around and starting a paid hosting service on it

Re: Apollo 15 postage stamp incident

#25

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Wed, May 01, 2019, 2:41 AM UTC

reitzensteinm wrote: post #15

jedberg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they are allowed to bring personal items on board. The error here was clerical. In fact some of the covers were listed under the personal items section. So was that wrong? They opted to take those instead of other personal items.

I believe the profit motive made it wrong, yes. It creates a fundamental conflict of interest in the allocation of taxpayer resources. This might not have been a severe case, but NASA was absolutely right to come down on it hard.

Or, it demonstrates a lack of foresight by NASA to take advantage of an opportunity to sell a bunch of stamps over the following decades at wildly inflated prices.

There must be at least a handful of items that don't weight a lot per 1000 units that could have gone to the moon and back. I'm thinking pretty much any paper document or certificate, cash notes.

Re: Apollo 15 postage stamp incident

#26

Post by meemo » Wed, May 01, 2019, 2:44 AM UTC

homero wrote: post #20

wyattpeak wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because most people have no idea what covers are, and unless you collect postage stamps the difference means nothing to you. If you'd asked me before I met a friend who collects, I would have assumed that using a stamp would render it worthless. The article's talk page actually has a similar discussion over whether to call them stamps or covers in the title, so although they come down on your side its hardly a given.

I still don't understand what a cover is. Is it the cancellation stamp?

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_cover they are "decorated, stamped and canceled commemorative envelopes"

Essentially they are envelopes with stamps and a marking over the stamps that prevents the envelope and stamps to be used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_(mail)

Re: Apollo 15 postage stamp incident

#27

Post by JetSpiegel » Wed, May 01, 2019, 2:49 AM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #11

reitzensteinm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be more like the President renting out a room in the White House. I think the line is actually pretty clear; if you're using state resources to produce something of value to sell for private profit, you're on the wrong side of it. While 400 stamps don't weigh a lot, they'd still cost more than $1 each to launch by my back of the envelope calculations. You're effectively footing NASA with a $500 bill to poc…

Or how about the President having guests stay in personal hotel chains? Oh wait...

The crack down will probably come, just delayed by a few years.

Re: Apollo 15 postage stamp incident

#28

Post by 6nf » Wed, May 01, 2019, 3:34 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #6

> some said astronauts should not be allowed to reap personal profits from NASA missions. That's an interesting ethical question. At what point is it ok for someone who got paid by the government to do a job ok to make extra money because of that fact. These days most Presidents get to write books about their time in the White House and make money. Buzz Aldrin still goes to cons and signs autographs for money. So whe…

In this case it seems like it was just about approval. Those items were not approved to fly on that rocket and that's a pretty big breach of procedure.

Re: Apollo 15 postage stamp incident

#29

Post by MichaelMoser123 » Wed, May 01, 2019, 3:47 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #6

> some said astronauts should not be allowed to reap personal profits from NASA missions. That's an interesting ethical question. At what point is it ok for someone who got paid by the government to do a job ok to make extra money because of that fact. These days most Presidents get to write books about their time in the White House and make money. Buzz Aldrin still goes to cons and signs autographs for money. So whe…

well, these guys tool a big personal risk - the vehicle might have blown up; so that I wouldn't judge them too much as a matter of principle.

Re: Apollo 15 postage stamp incident

#30

Post by astura » Wed, May 01, 2019, 3:51 AM UTC

homero wrote: post #20

wyattpeak wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because most people have no idea what covers are, and unless you collect postage stamps the difference means nothing to you. If you'd asked me before I met a friend who collects, I would have assumed that using a stamp would render it worthless. The article's talk page actually has a similar discussion over whether to call them stamps or covers in the title, so although they come down on your side its hardly a given.

I still don't understand what a cover is. Is it the cancellation stamp?

A cover is essentially an envelope (it got it's name because it covers the contents), usually stamped and those stamps cancelled.

Here's some examples of fancy covers:

https://store.usps.com/store/results/collector-s-zone-first-...