I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#21

Post by SiempreViernes » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #20

Standardized tests are designed to serve the needs of the school. Such tests let the teacher and school system assess multiple students efficiently and -- theoretically -- "fairly." They aren't actually designed to serve the needs of students.

Well, getting a good picture of how a student is doing is important for teaching them properly, so test that provides such a picture efficiently would be serve to clarify the actual needs of the students.

The problem is that tests tend to be subverted into tools for ranking the students, which doesn't serve their learning.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#22

Post by DoreenMichele » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:14 AM UTC

SiempreViernes wrote: post #21

DoreenMichele wrote: post #20

Standardized tests are designed to serve the needs of the school. Such tests let the teacher and school system assess multiple students efficiently and -- theoretically -- "fairly." They aren't actually designed to serve the needs of students.

Well, getting a good picture of how a student is doing is important for teaching them properly, so test that provides such a picture efficiently would be serve to clarify the actual needs of the students. The problem is that tests tend to be subverted into tools for ranking the students, which doesn't serve their learning.

A test is merely a tool. In the hands of a skilled professional, it can help cast light on the needs of the students.

In actual practice, they tend to not be used that way.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#23

Post by HarryHirsch » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:22 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #20

Standardized tests are designed to serve the needs of the school. Such tests let the teacher and school system assess multiple students efficiently and -- theoretically -- "fairly." They aren't actually designed to serve the needs of students.

If the students only knew what their needs were. My students need "word problems". Their schooling didn't teach them how to deal with ambiguity or how to make a reasoned argument. Also, in real life you won't encounter the right answer plus four decoy answers.

But they want check-a-box tests. They even went to complain to administration because they weren't getting any. Apparently, I'm asking erroneous [sic!] questions in class. You despair, you do.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#24

Post by philliphaydon » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:22 AM UTC

I absolutely agree

I dropped out of school because of this. Because I failed writing an essay on world war 1 poetry.

It’s not right to dissect art and fail a student for “wrong” answers.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#25

Post by rdiddly » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:25 AM UTC

Perfect example of mistaking measuring for knowing. Everything that can be measured can be known, but not everything that can be known can be measured.

Correct answer to the question about capitalization: "I don't know; neither do you; somebody could trivially ask the poet; regardless it's not really of primary importance; and arguably (postmodernism) the answer is up to me anyway."

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#26

Post by nothis » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:27 AM UTC

I was skeptical because the headline just sounds _too_ good. But yep, this is as stupid and cynical as it sounds. An a-b-c questionnaire about the meaning of a poem. Wow. Something went WRONG here.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#27

Post by nydel » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:30 AM UTC

is this testing method: a) dumb b) silly c) aromatically identical to balls d) two of the above

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#28

Post by DoreenMichele » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:33 AM UTC

HarryHirsch wrote: post #23

DoreenMichele wrote: post #20

Standardized tests are designed to serve the needs of the school. Such tests let the teacher and school system assess multiple students efficiently and -- theoretically -- "fairly." They aren't actually designed to serve the needs of students.

If the students only knew what their needs were. My students need "word problems". Their schooling didn't teach them how to deal with ambiguity or how to make a reasoned argument. Also, in real life you won't encounter the right answer plus four decoy answers. But they want check-a-box tests. They even went to complain to administration because they weren't getting any. Apparently, I'm asking erroneous [sic!] questio…

I hear you.

I took a college class. Environmental Biology, iirc. We were running out of time and the professor announced she would be cutting a few things from the curriculum.

Everyone was all "Hurrah! Yes! Less work! Feel free to cut even more and just give us As for doing nothing!"

Except me. I was the killjoy going "What if you actually need to know this stuff for a future class? Or even your job?!"

Everyone gave me the stink eye. I'm such a party pooper.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#29

Post by andrepd » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:34 AM UTC

>"Forget joy of language and the fun of discovery in poetry, this is line-by-line dissection, painful and delivered without anesthetic."

Describes my experience with $first_language classes in school to a tee. I love reading and learning and discussing stuff. I loathed those hours where we were told to cram the (god-given) standardised interpretation of the problem, no matter how little sense it made to you or how you might have an alternative opinion or assessment. Stifling all creativity and capacity for independent thought, not to mention killing the joy of reading in millions of kids.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#30

Post by andrepd » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:35 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #20

Standardized tests are designed to serve the needs of the school. Such tests let the teacher and school system assess multiple students efficiently and -- theoretically -- "fairly." They aren't actually designed to serve the needs of students.

They don't even serve the needs of the school (certainly not of the teachers, who we assume are in this for the kids). They serve the needs of the administrators and politicians.