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Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

nintendolife.com

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Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#21

Post by javagram »

miki123211 wrote: post #15

In what way was that code editor malicious? Did it allow i.e. creating your own games, modifying other games etc? I don't think so, since I'd expect apps on such platforms to be totally sandboxed. If you could only enter data into it via a keyboard, you couldn't even use it to download programs off the internet, except doing it the 80s "let's retype those ten pages of code into my computer" style.

> I'd expect apps on such platforms to be totally sandboxed.

This hasn’t been the case for any previous Nintendo console. Xbox does use HyperV to silo games from apps, but we’ve never heard anything about Nintendo doing something similar.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#22

Post by crooked-v »

olodus wrote: post #9
tluyben2 wrote: post #3

I love the amount of control we are using over our devices. It is not like people can do anything malicious with it. Anyway; so like Apple (less and less luckily), Nintendo forbids editable code to run on their devices? Or is it allowed if there is a gaming aspect involved? Or just not at all?

I wonder how far you could go with a language game Zachtronics - style before Nintendo would shut you down. I'm betting it would probably be all good until you allowed interfacing with some more basic underlying systems to the language (such as network for example) to the language. They can't be against custom map making for example right? How Turing complete are you allowed to make your custom map editor?

The requirement would probably be sandboxing without access to the rest of the machine, since that's what they've allowed for previous "programming toy" releases. SmileBASIC has full programming capability aside from direct hardware and network access, including comprehensive control of rendering and importing/exporting programs (http://smilebasic.com/en/).

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#23

Post by icebraining »

javagram wrote: post #21
miki123211 wrote: post #15

In what way was that code editor malicious? Did it allow i.e. creating your own games, modifying other games etc? I don't think so, since I'd expect apps on such platforms to be totally sandboxed. If you could only enter data into it via a keyboard, you couldn't even use it to download programs off the internet, except doing it the 80s "let's retype those ten pages of code into my computer" style.

> I'd expect apps on such platforms to be totally sandboxed. This hasn’t been the case for any previous Nintendo console. Xbox does use HyperV to silo games from apps, but we’ve never heard anything about Nintendo doing something similar.

According to the Wikipedia summary of this CCC video[1], the Switch OS (called "Horizon") sandboxes all userspace processes.

[1] https://media.ccc.de/v/34c3-8941-console_security_-_switch

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#24

Post by icebraining »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #13

And this is what happens when people don't own the hardware they buy. Instead, they get awful DRM'ed bullshit, with a monopolistic store 'owner' digitally forcing whatever they say on their fiefdom. The first computer I had access to had BASIC built in. Having control of a computer of what runs and not is an absolute basic right of ownership. And from these computers called "game consoles", you the purchaser have non…

I agree with you. On the other hand, what if someone wants an awful DRM'ed bullshit? Seems like poor form to purposefully bait-and-switch them. If, say, my Yubikey had some secret dance move that allowed people to read the private key from it, I'd be pretty miffed.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#26

Post by Kim_Bruning »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #13

And this is what happens when people don't own the hardware they buy. Instead, they get awful DRM'ed bullshit, with a monopolistic store 'owner' digitally forcing whatever they say on their fiefdom. The first computer I had access to had BASIC built in. Having control of a computer of what runs and not is an absolute basic right of ownership. And from these computers called "game consoles", you the purchaser have non…

What surprises me is the number of people who seem to be agreeing with Nintendo in this case.

I guess the Overton window is shifting away from a position of software freedom; which is unfortunate. :-/

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#27

Post by anfilt »

icebraining wrote: post #24
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #13

And this is what happens when people don't own the hardware they buy. Instead, they get awful DRM'ed bullshit, with a monopolistic store 'owner' digitally forcing whatever they say on their fiefdom. The first computer I had access to had BASIC built in. Having control of a computer of what runs and not is an absolute basic right of ownership. And from these computers called "game consoles", you the purchaser have non…

I agree with you. On the other hand, what if someone wants an awful DRM'ed bullshit? Seems like poor form to purposefully bait-and-switch them. If, say, my Yubikey had some secret dance move that allowed people to read the private key from it, I'd be pretty miffed.

A yubikey is a lot different than a locked down phone or gaming console.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#28

Post by ppseafield »

saidajigumi wrote: post #16

The narrative in the article also misses the following point, which I've seen many times over the years, in both game dev and non-game dev shops: It is massively unprofessional to ship an Easter Egg without broad consent to do so. Planning a fun "secret" for your users? Great! Surprising people involved in the publishing pipeline , esp. in a "will I get caught" way? Not so great. That's where Rajan went off the rails…

Indeed. Although this isn't sexually explicit, it reminds me of the trouble Rockstar got in after the Hot Coffee fiasco. Their publisher had to pay out hundreds of millions of dollars.

(Edit: pkroll is correct, the final penalties were $21 million.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Coffee_mod

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#29

Post by ppseafield »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #26
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #13

And this is what happens when people don't own the hardware they buy. Instead, they get awful DRM'ed bullshit, with a monopolistic store 'owner' digitally forcing whatever they say on their fiefdom. The first computer I had access to had BASIC built in. Having control of a computer of what runs and not is an absolute basic right of ownership. And from these computers called "game consoles", you the purchaser have non…

What surprises me is the number of people who seem to be agreeing with Nintendo in this case. I guess the Overton window is shifting away from a position of software freedom; which is unfortunate. :-/

As other commenters have pointed out, there is actually a BASIC interpreter available from the 3DS store, so interpreters aren't forbidden. And Nintendo has never been to friendly to software use outside what they explicitly allow.

I haven't seen anyone defending Nintendo's use of proprietary platform lock-in, but only that Nintendo should have been notified about it as part of publishing the game.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#30

Post by webdevatlurk »

politician wrote: post #25

That's wild because Super Mario Bros contains a built-in code editor (via arbitrary code execution easter eggs), and Nintendo is OK with that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPcV9uIY5i4

My favorite example of this is the time it was used it to inject flappy bird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB6eY73sLV0

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