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Facebook's Email-Harvesting Practice Is Under Investigation in N.Y.

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Re: Facebook's Email-Harvesting Practice Is Under Investigation in N.Y.

#21

Post by spaceheretostay »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #19
jakelazaroff wrote: post #3

I'm glad the attorney general is getting involved. We need to start charging Facebook execs for these flagrant privacy violations. They're being fined 3 billion dollars for legal expenses relating to an FTC inquiry… and their stock price went up by 8% [1]. The market just does not care; it's time regulators and law enforcement started to. [1] https://www.barrons.com/articles/facebook-stock-is-up-becaus...

What laws have they broken? Without laws to break there isn't much justification for punishment.

Facebook have broken a huge list of laws. But recently from my reading I think the current issue is a breach of contract. They signed a legal contract with the FTC and then broke it, hence the fine.

There doesn't seem to be any debate that Facebook broke the law - just debate about what the punishments should be.

Re: Facebook's Email-Harvesting Practice Is Under Investigation in N.Y.

#22

Post by spaceheretostay »

baroffoos wrote: post #20
SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just execs, I hope. The engineers who wrote the code and managers who told them to do it should also face justice.

That would require all developers to become lawyers so they can make sure everything they are being asked to do is legal.

We don't all need to be lawyers to understand the basics of our laws. Knowledge of the existence of the law is assumed for all citizens. Ignorance of the law has never been a valid excuse when the law is broken.

(Yes, the US does have some new problems with private laws being passed, where the public is not allowed to know the law itself - and this opens up huge scary things. But that is not what is being discussed here and I don't believe is relevant.)

Re: Facebook's Email-Harvesting Practice Is Under Investigation in N.Y.

#23

Post by OrgNet »

SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #13
jakelazaroff wrote: post #3

I'm glad the attorney general is getting involved. We need to start charging Facebook execs for these flagrant privacy violations. They're being fined 3 billion dollars for legal expenses relating to an FTC inquiry… and their stock price went up by 8% [1]. The market just does not care; it's time regulators and law enforcement started to. [1] https://www.barrons.com/articles/facebook-stock-is-up-becaus...

Not just execs, I hope. The engineers who wrote the code and managers who told them to do it should also face justice.

You really think execs will see consequences (besides fines)?

Re: Facebook's Email-Harvesting Practice Is Under Investigation in N.Y.

#24

Post by wavefunction »

baroffoos wrote: post #20
SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just execs, I hope. The engineers who wrote the code and managers who told them to do it should also face justice.

That would require all developers to become lawyers so they can make sure everything they are being asked to do is legal.

What's wrong with introspection about what you're doing on an ethical level? There's no legal standard involved so you don't have to be a lawyer, just a bit more thoughtful.

Re: Facebook's Email-Harvesting Practice Is Under Investigation in N.Y.

#25

Post by judge2020 »

misiti3780 wrote: post #18
droithomme wrote: post #9

So this relates to their practice of ransacking all your email contacts without your consent, engaging in data theft as they upload them and analyze them for subsequent actions. And of course Linked In is also notorious for engaging in this criminal vile privacy raping practice. I remember maybe 8 years ago it was here on HN that a company was found to be doing this and it was shocking to some. But an executive of th…

you were probably thinking about when Path got caught doing it .

Discussions:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3563016

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5632934

Re: Facebook's Email-Harvesting Practice Is Under Investigation in N.Y.

#26

Post by cobbzilla »

omeid2 wrote: post #17
baroffoos wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need to increase the fine substantially for each repeated violation. After a few violations its going to be hard to justify a $50B fine to investors.

The fines also needs to be fair, not fixed cost. I think the EU has got the percentage-of-revenue approach right. A million dollar fine for a small company can be death-sentence while for a big player it is lose change, that is not fair.

I agree that percent of revenue is a much better metric to base these kinds of fines off of, but not without reservations -- a small company with high sales revenue but razor thin margin could get killed by a % revenue fine; this seems unfair to the little guy.

On the other hand, if the fine is % income or anything but % gross receipts, then of course the system will be gamed endlessly by accountants and lawyers to show the smallest possible net number. The end result might be worse than a fixed fine. So % of revenue it is.

Re: Facebook's Email-Harvesting Practice Is Under Investigation in N.Y.

#27

Post by baroffoos »

wavefunction wrote: post #24
baroffoos wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would require all developers to become lawyers so they can make sure everything they are being asked to do is legal.

What's wrong with introspection about what you're doing on an ethical level? There's no legal standard involved so you don't have to be a lawyer, just a bit more thoughtful.

The law isn't just ethics. Companies have whole legal teams because laws are so complex. Should a developer be responsible because the cookie banner they implemented wasn't compliant with the laws of 100 countries even though the legal team already told them it was ok?

Re: Facebook's Email-Harvesting Practice Is Under Investigation in N.Y.

#28

Post by spaceheretostay »

baroffoos wrote: post #27
wavefunction wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with introspection about what you're doing on an ethical level? There's no legal standard involved so you don't have to be a lawyer, just a bit more thoughtful.

The law isn't just ethics. Companies have whole legal teams because laws are so complex. Should a developer be responsible because the cookie banner they implemented wasn't compliant with the laws of 100 countries even though the legal team already told them it was ok?

> Should a developer be responsible because the cookie banner they implemented wasn't compliant with the laws of 100 countries even though the legal team already told them it was ok?

Yes. 100%. "I was just following orders" is not a valid excuse, ever - Nuremberg is the obvious extreme example, but it's true everywhere.

Re: Facebook's Email-Harvesting Practice Is Under Investigation in N.Y.

#29

Post by jmspring »

droithomme wrote: post #9

So this relates to their practice of ransacking all your email contacts without your consent, engaging in data theft as they upload them and analyze them for subsequent actions. And of course Linked In is also notorious for engaging in this criminal vile privacy raping practice. I remember maybe 8 years ago it was here on HN that a company was found to be doing this and it was shocking to some. But an executive of th…

LinkedIn is notorious for this. The app still asks for contact access all the time.

Re: Facebook's Email-Harvesting Practice Is Under Investigation in N.Y.

#30

Post by kerng »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #19
jakelazaroff wrote: post #3

I'm glad the attorney general is getting involved. We need to start charging Facebook execs for these flagrant privacy violations. They're being fined 3 billion dollars for legal expenses relating to an FTC inquiry… and their stock price went up by 8% [1]. The market just does not care; it's time regulators and law enforcement started to. [1] https://www.barrons.com/articles/facebook-stock-is-up-becaus...

What laws have they broken? Without laws to break there isn't much justification for punishment.

Theft of personal information seems the most obvious one that they could be charged with. Unauthorized access of email accounts and exfiltration of information is something hackers have gone to jail for.
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