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Python overtakes JavaScript as most questioned language on StackOverflow

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Re: Python overtakes JavaScript as most questioned language on StackOverflow

#21

Post by inglor »

inglor wrote: post #20

I think a big part of it is how much canonical documentation and resources has improved in JavaScript vs. how much people are struggling with it in Python (as someone who does more Python than JS but does both). Python libraries tend to have less documentation and their documentation tends to be less live whereas JavaScript has been more stable lately (something I didn't think I'd ever write). Funnily enough the last…

Another thing I've noticed is that the Python community in StackOverflow is very nice and considerate most of the time compared to the JavaScript crowd. (Being a part of both).

If anyone is interested in engaging by the way: https://sopython.com/

Re: Python overtakes JavaScript as most questioned language on StackOverflow

#22

Post by jononor »

Gah, those wordclouds are horrible attempts of analyzing "what the questions are about". There is no attempt at normalizing term frequency, or removing non-informational words. So words like "get" and "using" get a high score.

It may also seem that the text analyzed is the entire post including metadata. For instance "closed" and "duplicate" both show, maybe just be because of "closed as duplicate"... Maybe even including the answers. Which could explain why "pip" would show up so often.

The summaries are also pretty off. "vector" mostly because C++ is about 3D graphics vectors? No, probably just a whole lot of std::vector...

Re: Python overtakes JavaScript as most questioned language on StackOverflow

#23

Post by StavrosK »

inglor wrote: post #20

I think a big part of it is how much canonical documentation and resources has improved in JavaScript vs. how much people are struggling with it in Python (as someone who does more Python than JS but does both). Python libraries tend to have less documentation and their documentation tends to be less live whereas JavaScript has been more stable lately (something I didn't think I'd ever write). Funnily enough the last…

> Funnily enough the last time I really struggled with a JavaScript library's docs it was Tensorflow.js (a Python port).

I think it's interesting how you mention that you struggled with the docs of Tensorflow.js and attribute that to it being a Python port, rather than it being the absolute cutting edge of machine learning. Are other state-of-the-art , pure JS ML (or similar level of complexity and novelty) libraries better documented?

Re: Python overtakes JavaScript as most questioned language on StackOverflow

#24

Post by inglor »

StavrosK wrote: post #23
inglor wrote: post #20

I think a big part of it is how much canonical documentation and resources has improved in JavaScript vs. how much people are struggling with it in Python (as someone who does more Python than JS but does both). Python libraries tend to have less documentation and their documentation tends to be less live whereas JavaScript has been more stable lately (something I didn't think I'd ever write). Funnily enough the last…

> Funnily enough the last time I really struggled with a JavaScript library's docs it was Tensorflow.js (a Python port). I think it's interesting how you mention that you struggled with the docs of Tensorflow.js and attribute that to it being a Python port, rather than it being the absolute cutting edge of machine learning. Are other state-of-the-art , pure JS ML (or similar level of complexity and novelty) libraries…

That's a fair point. In this particular case the documentation was significantly worse than most new JavaScript libraries I'm used to and pretty similar to most Python libraries I'm used to.

Sometimes parameters were missing, what values you can pass in were missing and there was a general lack of documentation on how to do things (sans a few tutorials).

I can name a bunch of examples. Here is a very simple one: what values can I pass as a loss function to LayersModel#compile? (I had to dig through the code to figure it out)

( https://js.tensorflow.org/api/latest/#tf.LayersModel.compile ) There is just consensus in JavaScript that things that don't get well documented don't get adoption.

Re: Python overtakes JavaScript as most questioned language on StackOverflow

#25

Post by StavrosK »

inglor wrote: post #24
StavrosK wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Funnily enough the last time I really struggled with a JavaScript library's docs it was Tensorflow.js (a Python port). I think it's interesting how you mention that you struggled with the docs of Tensorflow.js and attribute that to it being a Python port, rather than it being the absolute cutting edge of machine learning. Are other state-of-the-art , pure JS ML (or similar level of complexity and novelty) libraries…

That's a fair point. In this particular case the documentation was significantly worse than most new JavaScript libraries I'm used to and pretty similar to most Python libraries I'm used to. Sometimes parameters were missing, what values you can pass in were missing and there was a general lack of documentation on how to do things (sans a few tutorials). I can name a bunch of examples. Here is a very simple one: what…

Hmm, this has not been my experience with Python libraries (I can't speak for JS ones). The vast majority are well-enough documented that I've never had a problem, and I strive to document my important libs at least this well:

https://yeelight.readthedocs.io/

Re: Python overtakes JavaScript as most questioned language on StackOverflow

#26

Post by jefftk »

peteretep wrote: post #19
kissgyorgy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's strange to see this is your experience, because I had the exact opposite: Python documentations are usually very comprehensive, nicely formatted. Important projects have very good documentations and setting up a new documentation is very easy with Sphinx. Maybe you should try it again, it might have changed a lot since you looked it.

I looked at it last a month ago. It was terrible. > setting up a new documentation is very easy with Sphinx As per my original comment, the idea that documentation should require some kind of external markdown static site generator is bizarro land.

How would you want this to work? The alternatives to Sphinx I've used (Javadoc, Doxygen) more or less work the same way.

Re: Python overtakes JavaScript as most questioned language on StackOverflow

#27

Post by sametmax »

inglor wrote: post #20

I think a big part of it is how much canonical documentation and resources has improved in JavaScript vs. how much people are struggling with it in Python (as someone who does more Python than JS but does both). Python libraries tend to have less documentation and their documentation tends to be less live whereas JavaScript has been more stable lately (something I didn't think I'd ever write). Funnily enough the last…

There is no such things as the js doc. Only a huge number of 3rd party websites such as w3school, mdn, so, etc.

Also python has readthedoc for non stdlib doc, for js it's very heterogenuous.

All in all, I think the doc situation could be much improved, but not compared to JS.

Re: Python overtakes JavaScript as most questioned language on StackOverflow

#28

Post by np_tedious »

roenxi wrote: post #17
sametmax wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often say that Python is the best at nothing, but pretty good at most things. And hence it became huge by the sheer appeal of being versatile. Life is short and most people needing to program are not programmers. Also many programmers didn't start as such, and were simply looking for an easy way to solve a task.

There is a bit more insight to be found by reversing that - Python is simpler than other programming languages and achieves that by sacrificing a little power. Compare it to C, which it has displaced as an introductory language. Python and C are superficially interchangeable to a beginner, but to learn C you have to invest time into pointers and memory management. Python sacrifices the efficiency of direct memory man…

> can't even use a dict as a dict key

Curious, is this actually something you want to do often? While there is no hashable+immutable frozendict ala frozenset, you could throw one together or even define a hash function on a subclass and "swim at your own risk" not to mutate it later.

I've encountered this enough with lists and the obvious solution is to cast them to tuples. Can't say I've found the same with dicts tho.

As for the comparison with lisp - in most lisps this is a non issue because nearly all structures are immutable

Re: Python overtakes JavaScript as most questioned language on StackOverflow

#29

Post by robertAngst »

I'll take a stab at it.

Ask a question for (server) Javascript- 99% of people aren't going to try because the code is too unruly to deal with. Its simply faster to google and debug.

Ask a question in python- python code is simple enough to copy paste into SO. And given python has hordes of newbies, they don't realize google is probably a better place to look.

This synergy of situation is why Javascript is getting less questions.

EDIT: I program in both, I don't see why this is invalid.

Re: Python overtakes JavaScript as most questioned language on StackOverflow

#30

Post by iainmerrick »

np_tedious wrote: post #28
roenxi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a bit more insight to be found by reversing that - Python is simpler than other programming languages and achieves that by sacrificing a little power. Compare it to C, which it has displaced as an introductory language. Python and C are superficially interchangeable to a beginner, but to learn C you have to invest time into pointers and memory management. Python sacrifices the efficiency of direct memory man…

> can't even use a dict as a dict key Curious, is this actually something you want to do often? While there is no hashable+immutable frozendict ala frozenset, you could throw one together or even define a hash function on a subclass and "swim at your own risk" not to mutate it later. I've encountered this enough with lists and the obvious solution is to cast them to tuples. Can't say I've found the same with dicts th…

Not often, but when you do want to do it, it’s frustrating (and unusual for Python) that the natural and obvious way doesn’t work.
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