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Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

theguardian.com

21–30 of 41 posts

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#21
post #14

So the big winner here really is the US. They got Assange in a virtual prison for ~7 years at no cost to them (that cost was borne by the UK and the Metropolitan Police). You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison. What's more none of that ~7 years counts towards actual jail time he'll like serve in the UK (for absconding) and the US (the publicized charges are only the beginnin…

You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison.

I’ve seen footage of where he was in the embassy, it’s a lot better than prison. He also didn’t have to be counted five times a day, no one was trying to rape him or stab him, he woke up and went to sleep when he wanted, ate an array of foods, and until the end had access to people who wanted to visit in person. No guards abused him, and if he wanted to he could leave. Plus, he made a choice to enter the embassy and stay there.

What's more none of that ~7 years counts towards actual jail time he'll like serve in the UK (for absconding) and the US (the publicized charges are only the beginning). The one (?) remaining charge in Sweden will quickly fall apart no doubt.

On what planet would time spent after jumping bail and seeking asylum in an embassy count toward time served? That’s... insane. As far as the charges falling apart we’ll have to wait and see, if they’re even filed. Of course if the charges were nonsense then 7 years in an embassy was a really stupid choice.

Arguments that Assange deserve protection as a journalist are (IMHO) a stretch at best. Getting a hold of classified information is one thing. Aiding in defeating security measures to obtain it is quite another story. But to me at least, the big problem is that Assange lost all credibility as a journalist over the Wikileaks handling of the 2016 election and related hackings (eg the DCC emails). You'll have a hard time arguing that Assange (and Wikileaks by extension) wasn't picking a side here and doing what they can to influence the outcome of the election. A traditional media outlet with an op-ed section is one thing. Playing an active part in illegally obtaining emails and other materials as well as arguably passing on that information to a presidential campaign is quite something else. Even Snowden filtered his classified material through reputable media outlets.

Yes, that all sounds about right. He’s also not being charged with what he carelessly published, but rather how he attempted to obtain it. Journalism isn’t even in the room.

So now we have embassy (~7 years), fighting extradition to either the US or Sweden (2+ years probably), whatever prison time he has to serve in the UK (which will run concurrently to fighting extradition no doubt as it's typical to serve that time first) and then years, perhaps many years, in US prisons. He may not see the light of day until 2030, maybe 2040.

The common factor here is his series of bad decisions.

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#22
post #11
post #6

Isolation is a very bad thing. Seven years is too much. Feeling wronged, with the USA after you, confined to a building for someone used to travelling the world... I can understand a behaviour that I strongly dislike, including all kind of shit suggested by the only people that supported him. So I'm sorry for him and Snowden, but I wouldn't trust either of them in their current circumstances.

odd to add Snowden to that Assange was in a building, Snowden is in the largest country on the planet

I mentioned two causes why Assange should be excused and should not be trusted: physical isolation and being supported only by people of a mind.

Snowden is... where is he located exactly? Being hidden is a kind of isolation too.

And he is totally dependent on Russia. That makes all he says suspicious, at least to me. That's sad. I think he made something good and I feel sympathy for him. But again...

Edit: if isolated people end up approaching the ones hurting them (Stockholm syndrome), imagine what happens with people that are supposedly helping them.

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to me at least, the big problem is that Assange lost all credibility as a journalist over the Wikileaks handling of the 2016 election and related hackings (eg the DCC emails). You'll have a hard time arguing that Assange (and Wikileaks by extension) wasn't picking a side here and doing what they can to influence the outcome of the election. How is this any different than most mainstream journalists?

No. Mainstream journalists never pick a side or intend to influence the outcome of the election. At least not pick the wrong side.

Of course they don't. [1] And no one ever tries to hide the fact such things happened, either. [2]

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/07/do...

[2] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/clinton-received-debate-qu...

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#24
post #14

So the big winner here really is the US. They got Assange in a virtual prison for ~7 years at no cost to them (that cost was borne by the UK and the Metropolitan Police). You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison. What's more none of that ~7 years counts towards actual jail time he'll like serve in the UK (for absconding) and the US (the publicized charges are only the beginnin…

You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison. I’ve seen footage of where he was in the embassy, it’s a lot better than prison. He also didn’t have to be counted five times a day, no one was trying to rape him or stab him, he woke up and went to sleep when he wanted, ate an array of foods, and until the end had access to people who wanted to visit in person. No guards abused him, a…

Didn't he just publish documents obtained by others (albeit illegally)?

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison. I’ve seen footage of where he was in the embassy, it’s a lot better than prison. He also didn’t have to be counted five times a day, no one was trying to rape him or stab him, he woke up and went to sleep when he wanted, ate an array of foods, and until the end had access to people who wanted to visit in person. No guards abused him, a…

Didn't he just publish documents obtained by others (albeit illegally)?

The allegation in the indictment claims otherwise, hence the indictment and extradition request. Then there’s the rape issue in Sweden, although I really have no idea how that will stand up if it’s reopened. Still, answering those questions f fact are why courts exist.

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't he just publish documents obtained by others (albeit illegally)?

The allegation in the indictment claims otherwise, hence the indictment and extradition request. Then there’s the rape issue in Sweden, although I really have no idea how that will stand up if it’s reopened. Still, answering those questions f fact are why courts exist .

However, these allegations have come up before in Manning's trial, and they do not amount to much more than him trying (not succeeding) to help Manning cover her tracks, i.e., protecting his source as a journalist. He did NOT help Manning access more data. This article by Glenn Greenwald is a good read on the subject:

https://theintercept.com/2019/04/11/the-u-s-governments-indi...

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#27

> He accused Assange of repeatedly interfering in the internal affairs of other states, referencing WikiLeaks’ publication of Vatican documents in January 2019 as a recent example. “It is unfortunate that there are individuals dedicated to violating the privacy of people,” Moreno said. Why even offer asylum then? This is literally what WikiLeaks does .

Makes for a good bargaining chip. Case in point: The timing on a recent IMF loan to Ecuador, over $4.2 billion [0], is really convenient.

[0] https://www.enca.com/business/imf-approves-42bn-loan-ecuador

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#28
post #14

So the big winner here really is the US. They got Assange in a virtual prison for ~7 years at no cost to them (that cost was borne by the UK and the Metropolitan Police). You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison. What's more none of that ~7 years counts towards actual jail time he'll like serve in the UK (for absconding) and the US (the publicized charges are only the beginnin…

You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison. I’ve seen footage of where he was in the embassy, it’s a lot better than prison. He also didn’t have to be counted five times a day, no one was trying to rape him or stab him, he woke up and went to sleep when he wanted, ate an array of foods, and until the end had access to people who wanted to visit in person. No guards abused him, a…

"it’s a lot better than prison"

I think our definition of imprisonment is different. To me being confined within the limits of a single house suffices. No need for that... other stuff.

I'm don't think the court will count the times his body should have been violated as a factor.

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#29
post #4
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you lose your freedom and become a political pawn, you should act the part. You don't see Snowden shitting on Russia do you?

You do. [1][2] But you have a point more generally. [1] https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/19/edward-snow... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/29/edward-snowd...

Wow. That's brave.

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#30
post #14

So the big winner here really is the US. They got Assange in a virtual prison for ~7 years at no cost to them (that cost was borne by the UK and the Metropolitan Police). You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison. What's more none of that ~7 years counts towards actual jail time he'll like serve in the UK (for absconding) and the US (the publicized charges are only the beginnin…

Time served always means in jail as specified by the particular law enforcement agency and court laying and trying the charges. The embassy and Maralogo are the same to them if either is used to evade law enforcement and arrest.
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