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Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

nytimes.com

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Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#21

Post by duxup »

dvtrn wrote: post #19
kyrra wrote: post #6

Even without Google or Apple, they police have the cell service providers. In the case of the Austin bomber from a year ago[0], police got cell tower records from the multiple bombings and figured out who was at all the locations. Cell phones are little trackers unless you turn them off or don't carry one. [0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna85...

Reading that article reminds me of a rather prophetically-accurate movie starring Will Smith and Gene Hackman "Emeny of the State"[0]. Granted, for a film that came out in 1998 it probably wasn't too hard to guess where things were headed w/rt surveillance compared to how seemingly prescient writings from the likes of Orwell and Bradbury were for their respective times. What stands out to me about the movie (because…

I remembered watching that and thinking that it was apt.... but there's no damn way anyone gets access to all those different systems managed by different groups seamlessly. The bureaucracy involved would be immense, the various systems that can't talk to each other efficiently endless. I imagined all the overhead that would go into that and it hurt my brain ;)

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#23

Post by dvtrn »

vermontdevil wrote: post #20
dvtrn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading that article reminds me of a rather prophetically-accurate movie starring Will Smith and Gene Hackman "Emeny of the State"[0]. Granted, for a film that came out in 1998 it probably wasn't too hard to guess where things were headed w/rt surveillance compared to how seemingly prescient writings from the likes of Orwell and Bradbury were for their respective times. What stands out to me about the movie (because…

Hackman was also in another movie about spying and paranoia - The Conversation. Great movie. I know it’s not about nation states spying but wanted to add that here

Oh? Thanks for the recommendation, I'm a big fan of Hackman's acting and spy movies especially-lately, so I'll definitely be looking this up. Cheers

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#24

Post by gist »

fharper1961 wrote: post #18

Location data can also be used to help prove your innocence. It sucks that this innocent person ended up suffering. Hopefully law enforcement will become better at figuring out false positives before arresting someone. I do like that the gov. doesn't have direct access. Seems to me like the more independent parties required to access the data, the lower the chances of abuse.

> Location data can also be used to help prove your innocence.

Well not really. If that were the case and if someone was going to commit a crime they could simply place their phone in someone else's auto (let's say without them even knowing) and then have that data be the data that is 'them'. This would quickly unravel. Besides I don't think it's so much that the data is useful other than it gives clues and points in a particular direction whereby the police can then narrow down or look further into a particular suspect.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#25

Post by greenyoda »

wyldfire wrote: post #22

I'm about to go commit a crime. How do I turn off this feature?

If you're going to commit a crime, leave your phone at home so that (1) you can't be linked to the crime scene and (2) there's evidence you may have been somewhere else (at home) at the time.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#26

Post by giancarlostoro »

DontGiveTwoFlux wrote: post #2

The article describes a case where an innocent man had to spend a week in jail. Eventually, he was released and the presumed actual perpetrator was caught. The lead seemed to come from the location data, so it wasn’t useless at least. But the so called justice system says that it got it right here. The innocent man lost his job when he couldn’t work for a week. Depending on his situation he could miss rent and be evi…

This also showcases how innocent until proven guilty is not honored at all. Don't throw me in jail just because you're investigating me, throw me in jail if I run off out of town or do something sketchy to interfere with the investigation. If I am not guilty I wont be running out of town, but I sure wont be talking to you without a lawyer no matter what[0].

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#27

Post by ignoramous »

kyrra wrote: post #6

Even without Google or Apple, they police have the cell service providers. In the case of the Austin bomber from a year ago[0], police got cell tower records from the multiple bombings and figured out who was at all the locations. Cell phones are little trackers unless you turn them off or don't carry one. [0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna85...

The problem is compounded by the fact that 4G and beyond have location triangulation specific features specially built in to them. The tech is only going to improve as today it isn't as accurate as GPS.

I found that this Wikipedia article is a great little read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#28

Post by giancarlostoro »

javajosh wrote: post #16
isoskeles wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should also be unlawful to dismiss an employee because they were arrested and never indicted. I disagree. The cost of bad policing shouldn't be paid for by businesses. The police should bear the consequences, not have yet another victim (some business) to burden with more punishment.

An arrest of the sort we are talking about is a form of extra-judicial punishment that should be forbidden by any just system of law. In fact, I am constantly surprised at the things that are allowed, and even encouraged, in our judicial system, and how many individuals apparently believe the system is fine the way it is. Saying that we should continue to allow people to be fired for an arrest is to further support t…

It is entirely against the premise of "innocent until proven guilty" we treat suspects like criminals, I get it, you want them to "crack" but what in the world! If someone has no criminal record, please treat them as if they may not have one after you question them, don't ruin their lives.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#29

Post by lotsofpulp »

greenyoda wrote: post #25
wyldfire wrote: post #22

I'm about to go commit a crime. How do I turn off this feature?

If you're going to commit a crime, leave your phone at home so that (1) you can't be linked to the crime scene and (2) there's evidence you may have been somewhere else (at home) at the time.

Also make sure your home activities continue as normal such as electricity, water, gas, and internet usage.

And don’t use any vehicle with a license plate that can be tracked to you, or the area around your house.

All that effort is better focused on committing legal white collar crimes, via plausible deniability and in person conversations that aren’t recorded.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#30

Post by [deleted] »

gist wrote: post #24
fharper1961 wrote: post #18

Location data can also be used to help prove your innocence. It sucks that this innocent person ended up suffering. Hopefully law enforcement will become better at figuring out false positives before arresting someone. I do like that the gov. doesn't have direct access. Seems to me like the more independent parties required to access the data, the lower the chances of abuse.

> Location data can also be used to help prove your innocence. Well not really. If that were the case and if someone was going to commit a crime they could simply place their phone in someone else's auto (let's say without them even knowing) and then have that data be the data that is 'them'. This would quickly unravel. Besides I don't think it's so much that the data is useful other than it gives clues and points in…

[deleted]
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