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Linux Mint's Sobering Update: A Glimpse into the Personal Struggles Devs Face

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Re: Linux Mint's Sobering Update: A Glimpse into the Personal Struggles Devs Face

#21
To all Mint developers: THANK YOU!!!

I use Mint for over 5 years as my main OS and it allowed me to make a seamless transition from Windows/macOS to Linux for everyday tasks, on high-end hardware with multiple HiDPI monitors and including games with recent Steam updates (thanks to Ubuntu + Valve as well!). I can't imagine being stuck with Windows 10/macOS these days.

Re: Linux Mint's Sobering Update: A Glimpse into the Personal Struggles Devs Face

#22
post #12

> We can get demotivated, uncertain, depressed even by negative reactions or interactions, and it can lead to developers stepping away from the project, taking a break or even leaving for good. It truly is a struggle. I have a couple of projects with moderate numbers of users, and between the "it doesn't work" private messages (not even mentioning which project) and some abusive and entitled users, I do wonder someti…

You get to decide how much support you're going to give, and what kind of access. The easier access people have to you, the more they're going to share their frustrations and start demanding things.

My first suggestion is to limit access. Only provide a mailing list e-mail address, so people know their comments are going to be public, and they have to subscribe to it and craft an e-mail.

Second I'd suggest you provide your users with clear expectations of use and support. Tell them you're not producing it for them, but for you, so you're not going to take feature requests, but you are open to suggestions. Tell them you aren't responsible if they can't get it working, but you are open to legitimate bug reports. Provide a mechanism to determine bug reports such as system information dumps to spend less time troubleshooting.

If people get through your filters and are still rude, there's always public shaming.

Re: Linux Mint's Sobering Update: A Glimpse into the Personal Struggles Devs Face

#23
post #12

> We can get demotivated, uncertain, depressed even by negative reactions or interactions, and it can lead to developers stepping away from the project, taking a break or even leaving for good. It truly is a struggle. I have a couple of projects with moderate numbers of users, and between the "it doesn't work" private messages (not even mentioning which project) and some abusive and entitled users, I do wonder someti…

So, it seems like there is a potential way for a non-dev user to help out with open source, here. Basically, if a person volunteers to be an intermediary, reading the feedback and distilling it down to the relevant content (stripping out the unproductive negativity), that could be useful. It would also be emotionally easier to read harsh feedback, when it's not about _your_ work, just the work of a product you use. Many open source projects have plenty of non-dev users, who cannot really help out currently, but some of them might be willing to if shown a good entry point.

Again, they wouldn't be blocking the feedback, just distilling it down to the most relevant part (e.g. "your piece of sh*t update broke the f#$King feature I depend on for my work!" becomes "newest update caused a regression in this menu item").

Just an idea.

Re: Linux Mint's Sobering Update: A Glimpse into the Personal Struggles Devs Face

#24
Linux Mint seems to take a fairly regular beating from the Linux community at large, and I'm not sure why. It became fashionable after their ISO downloads were briefly compromised in 2016, and a popular LWN post became the script for people to reiterate every time Mint is mentioned in any capacity.[0]

I think it's a terrible shame. For all the stuff I wish it did better, it does so much right that I still overwhelmingly consider it the best distro for converting friends and family away from Windows or OSX, even if I don't use it myself.

[0]https://lwn.net/Articles/676664/

Re: Linux Mint's Sobering Update: A Glimpse into the Personal Struggles Devs Face

#25
This touches on something I've seen in (some, not all) large open source communities: the language used on a daily basis. The default tone is one devoid of empathy or understanding.

> This update is shit.

or

> [new build gets published, person's pet bug doesn't get addressed] > The devs are lazy.

At what point did this sort of tone get normalized? I initially chalked it down to non-native English speakers using verbiage from forums and IRC channels, but over time I've observed that isn't the case.

Re: Linux Mint's Sobering Update: A Glimpse into the Personal Struggles Devs Face

#26

This touches on something I've seen in (some, not all) large open source communities: the language used on a daily basis. The default tone is one devoid of empathy or understanding. > This update is shit. or > [new build gets published, person's pet bug doesn't get addressed] > The devs are lazy. At what point did this sort of tone get normalized? I initially chalked it down to non-native English speakers using verbi…

While I'd like to blame this on gaming culture, this went on back in the Usenet days too.

Re: Linux Mint's Sobering Update: A Glimpse into the Personal Struggles Devs Face

#27

As much as I think that Linux Mint is a distribution with great potential, I don't want to support something that blatantly states that they don't want my help or the help of anyone who supports Israel. http://abriefhistory.org/?p=774

which is fine I think. you are entitled to your own opinion/views, as they are too.

Re: Linux Mint's Sobering Update: A Glimpse into the Personal Struggles Devs Face

#28
post #17
post #3

I can't even imagine the stress from public comments that comes from working on an open source operating system. I don't use Mint but I'm hugely sympathetic to the devs who have to deal with the backlash from, of all things, a logo and website design change that they likely had little to no involvement with.

I worked as a front line developer at a major Linux distro known for making some unpopular decisions. I came to the position knowing full well how 10% of all people out there are loudmouth asscracks . People without experience or inside knowledge who think they know better than those with, and expect to have only their own personal demands met at the expense of everyone else probably because they are getting somethin…

Heya bregma, good to see you! We had a Code of Conduct we could enforce on at least official properties to make sure people behave, though I wasn't able to find one for Mint.

It doesn't stop if completely, but at least it's nice to be able to do your job without too much flaming. Reddit or blogs might be nuts, but at least the work mailing lists and bug trackers were relatively ok.

Re: Linux Mint's Sobering Update: A Glimpse into the Personal Struggles Devs Face

#29
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has published a free app for fun, I've learned that due to any mix of entitlement and ignorance, anything you put out there can make some people emotionally angry. I'm still learning how to move on and accept that this is OK, for them and for me.

Sorry you had to go through that! I tend to ignore the negative feedback, and reply to the postive feedback (with a simple thank you or something of the likes). If you did something for fun, it doesn't really matter what people think. Just keep doing stuff for fun, and kudos for putting it out there for others to enjoy! Even if you get some people who don't like it, remember you did not do it for them :-)

Thank you! Overall it has been a positive experience :) This is my first time dealing with 'the public' and I'm likely overdue for the lesson that one can never (and shouldn't) make everybody happy.

Re: Linux Mint's Sobering Update: A Glimpse into the Personal Struggles Devs Face

#30
post #21

To all Mint developers: THANK YOU!!! I use Mint for over 5 years as my main OS and it allowed me to make a seamless transition from Windows/macOS to Linux for everyday tasks, on high-end hardware with multiple HiDPI monitors and including games with recent Steam updates (thanks to Ubuntu + Valve as well!). I can't imagine being stuck with Windows 10/macOS these days.

I've been using it for 2-3 years now on a Chromebook I converted to dual-boot with one of the options being Linux Mint on a USB. I don't use it every day but I do use it probably one a week for something vital. So I want to second the Thank You to the Mint developers!
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