[deleted]
Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry
21–30 of 373 posts
Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry
#22Not only could the panelists themselves not work together constructively. Googler's were so enraged by the inclusion of certain people that any recommendation with those people's sign-on would have been DOA.
This is the cause of Googler rage: https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/273360/how-african-american...
If the "highest-profile African-American woman at Google" is someone who shows up for a meeting every few months and isn't even paid for it, isn't that kind of a problem? If they're trying to play the race card, they should look more carefully at what happens when you tap it....
Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry
#23Hey HN, I'm the author of this article (also the precursor predicting this, which was on the front page yesterday). My impression is that the best place to look for an explanation is actually the facebook post by Luciano Floridi: https://www.facebook.com/floridi/posts/10157226054696031 . My sources at Google just couldn't see the panelists constructively working together on a panel at this point. Obviously, protests…
> My sources at Google just couldn't see the panelists constructively working together on a panel at this point. Well, that's the point, isn't it? If the AI ethics council is meeting four times a year for a couple hours at most, and and has people who can't even agree on "Which bathroom should this person use," how are they going to produce productive advice for actual hard questions that haven't been well-explored?…
It seems to me that if they limited their recommendations to only things the entire board could agree on, they could still be productive.
For example, they may not agree on how bathrooms should be organized, but they probably all agree that bathrooms should exist.
The fact that the board had wildly varying opinions is a feature, not a bug. The outputs of this board should be widely agreed upon. If they make declarations that half the country disagrees with, they're going to lose credibility fast. Having an ideologically diverse board helps to secure their credibility.
Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry
#24Why can’t leadership at Google stand by any of their decisions, instead of caving in to the demands of a small yet vocal group of people.
Engineering at Google objected, and leadership at Google can't do anything without engineering at Google.
Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry
#25a.
Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
> My sources at Google just couldn't see the panelists constructively working together on a panel at this point. Well, that's the point, isn't it? If the AI ethics council is meeting four times a year for a couple hours at most, and and has people who can't even agree on "Which bathroom should this person use," how are they going to produce productive advice for actual hard questions that haven't been well-explored?…
It seems to me that if they limited their recommendations to only things the entire board could agree on, they could still be productive. For example, they may not agree on how bathrooms should be organized, but they probably all agree that bathrooms should exist. The fact that the board had wildly varying opinions is a feature, not a bug. The outputs of this board should be widely agreed upon. If they make declarati…
But the board is there to advise Google on hard questions, not easy ones. Is it unethical, for instance, to use AI to detect and block potential child pornography and flag it for potential referral to law enforcement? Probably not, but anyone can tell you that. Is it unethical to use AI to identify "gender ideology propaganda" and refer that to law enforcement in places where it's illegal? Depends on whether you think such laws are ethical. If the council can't answer that, what use is it?
(If the point of the council is to tell you things that anyone with a functioning conscience could tell you, then the fact that it's needed is a serious indictment of Google management. I'd like to think the council is here for the hard questions.)
Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is the cause of Googler rage: https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/273360/how-african-american...
If the "highest-profile African-American woman at Google" is someone who shows up for a meeting every few months and isn't even paid for it, isn't that kind of a problem? If they're trying to play the race card, they should look more carefully at what happens when you tap it....
Are you saying those Googlers wouldn’t be enraged if she had a salary to be on that board?
Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry
#28Why can’t leadership at Google stand by any of their decisions, instead of caving in to the demands of a small yet vocal group of people.
Engineering at Google objected, and leadership at Google can't do anything without engineering at Google.
Not sure this is entirely true. Compared to some of the previous petitions / walkouts, this one was relatively minor, and was mostly the whiny ones.
Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry
#29So what now? No ethics board at all and it just proceeds without ethics oversight? Isn’t that state worse than having someone you disagree with on some principles but in theory provide constructive criticism where the politics don’t intersect? I mean, making some jobs obsolete or making decisions on recidivism etc I think are distinct from what a panelist thinks about an unrelated issue. Moreover this person didn’t p…
I feel like an extreme view would be to say any ethics board is better than no ethics board.
If you disagree with that statement then I think the question is: Was this ethics board bad enough that it was worse than no ethics board?
And, I trust that you're being charitable enough to believe that the people that wanted the board removed asked the same, very basic, ethical question.
On the other hand - it might be easier to think they didn't ask or think about that question and discard their position based on what could frankly be called a strawman.
Re: Google cancels AI ethics board in response to outcry
#30I'm on an IEEE AI ethics standards working group and I can tell you that these kinds of boards, without deep expertise in technology and logic/philosophy don't end up producing anything of much value.
Human ethics is hard, messy and forever changing. Codifying human ethics into systems that can be tested and implemented are what politics and economic philosophy are all about. It's ungodly hard and not something that can be taken lightly.