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Splitting atoms in XNU

googleprojectzero.blogspot.com

21–30 of 37 posts

Re: Splitting atoms in XNU

#21
post #3

Blows my mind that there’s people who figure this stuff out. Do they just spend their day to day time at work attempting all sorts of variations of this kind of stuff? How often does discovery or research like this lead to a dead end?

Presumably they have a large catalog of exploits that they sit on until they have an interesting exploit chain.

Re: Splitting atoms in XNU

#22
post #7

I just noticed that they renamed Project Fi to just Google Fi. When I first saw this post, due to Project in the name I thought it was Google Fi. Good on them for changing the name. Maybe it's a sign that Google will be more consistent in their naming in the future.

I'm surprised they're still using a blogspot subdomain . Something like zero.google or projectzero.google would work (with redirects for existing links)

0.google would be nice.

Re: Splitting atoms in XNU

#23
post #3

Blows my mind that there’s people who figure this stuff out. Do they just spend their day to day time at work attempting all sorts of variations of this kind of stuff? How often does discovery or research like this lead to a dead end?

It's completely amazing to me too. As I understand it, one of the tools that the security research community uses is fuzzing ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzing ). I can at least understand how this sort of technique would help generate some leads. I'd recommend the Security Now podcast by Steve Gibson if you're interested in this sort of thing. He does a great job explaining many of the exploits out there.

Security Now ... woah ... didn't realize GRC was still around. I remember visiting ShieldsUP in the 90s. Site looks the same. More content, but the design has not changed. Those are some old gifs.

Re: Splitting atoms in XNU

#24

I constantly get a kernal panic on multiple machines under heavy load of the sort of trying to interlock destroyed mutex from within, according to the backtrace, com.metakine.handsoff.driver. I'm wondering if it's exploitable.

Is that a third party kernel extension? Sounds like a buggy one if so, and if it’s this " rel="nofollow">https://www.oneperiodic.com/products/handsoff/> then it might be lessening security instead of increasing it.

Re: Splitting atoms in XNU

#25

I constantly get a kernal panic on multiple machines under heavy load of the sort of trying to interlock destroyed mutex from within, according to the backtrace, com.metakine.handsoff.driver. I'm wondering if it's exploitable.

Not sure about the vulnerability of it, but it sounds like an unhandled race-condition.

Re: Splitting atoms in XNU

#26
post #24

I constantly get a kernal panic on multiple machines under heavy load of the sort of trying to interlock destroyed mutex from within, according to the backtrace, com.metakine.handsoff.driver. I'm wondering if it's exploitable.

Is that a third party kernel extension? Sounds like a buggy one if so, and if it’s this " rel="nofollow">https://www.oneperiodic.com/products/handsoff/> then it might be lessening security instead of increasing it.

Yeap. I wouldn't say lessening unilaterally but with the nuance of changing the attack surface in different areas. IIRC "Hands Off!" is a firewall and an app firewall that can selectively limit disk and network access.

Re: Splitting atoms in XNU

#27
Great deep dive into iOS use of tagged memory, and a good example that security needs to go all the way down the stack to actually be effective.

Re: Splitting atoms in XNU

#28
post #3

Blows my mind that there’s people who figure this stuff out. Do they just spend their day to day time at work attempting all sorts of variations of this kind of stuff? How often does discovery or research like this lead to a dead end?

When all software was in C and C++, that was rather common. I'd say there are less people today in the industry that can find out simplest assembler level exploits than it was at the peak of malware scene 15 years ago.

Re: Splitting atoms in XNU

#29

It would be interesting to see how many of these bugs would be possible if an operating system written in Rust would be used. I would treat any code allocating / deallocating / moving / locking memory by hand instead of using higher level constructs unsafe now that we know that it's possible to automate checking safety of the operations.

Can Rust evangelists stop astroturfing their language in every discussion?

The moment I saw article was about a bug in native code I knew there would be a comment like

I wonder if Rust could have helped here?”

Re: Splitting atoms in XNU

#30
post #12
post #3

Blows my mind that there’s people who figure this stuff out. Do they just spend their day to day time at work attempting all sorts of variations of this kind of stuff? How often does discovery or research like this lead to a dead end?

They tend to be really smart and motivated people. For example, http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/gcnc/ is not just a good guide to CNC, it's an amazing guide where you realize he learned half the unwritten rules just by thinking about them. http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/rstory/ for the robots.

That seems like a good pointer, but what does CNC milling have to do with finding bugs in a virtual memory system?
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