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“The China Study” and Longevity

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Re: “The China Study” and Longevity

#21

Post by pergadad »

bertomartin wrote: post #17
papermill wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Western" disease is caused by high intake of processed foods, soda, etc. It isn't the vegan diet that helps. It's removing processed food, soda, etc. You can be an omnivore or a carnivore and remove processed junk food and reduce "Western" disease. And you can be a vegan and eat a ton of processed vegan junk food and succumb to "Western" disease. Processed foods and overeating is the true problem in the western diet…

This is so true...I believe this wholeheartedly, had to find my long-last hn login to upvote this. I've read a lot of stories where people start a diet such as one meal a day, or all potatoes...heck I even heard of a guy who was "curing" patients with only rice and sugar back in the day. The common thread among these stories is that they've stopped eating a lot of what they used to (presumably mostly junk food), and…

Just to stress that the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'. It may be true - or not. But it's important not to assume it's true just because a few stories say so.

Re: “The China Study” and Longevity

#23

Post by tomstoms »

scythe wrote: post #9

Here is a debate between the author of The China Study and another scientist in the field who disagrees with his findings: http://www.catalystathletics.com/articles/downloads/proteinD... (I have no idea why Campbell chose not to cite any sources.) and here is a simplified take by the excellent skeptic Harriet Hall: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/385/ As Hall notes: >He criticizes conventional recommendations for a…

Campbell does not advocate strict prohibition of animal protein. He observes, merely, that it’s probably easier to avoid it altogether than to reduce the intake to safe levels.

The argument is as follows, albeit simplified: When you eat an animal-based diet you are likely to eat a lot more protein than you should, say 20-40% of calories. Recommenced is 10% which is nowadays very close to what authorities generally recommend regardless of source. Campbell argues that it is very challenging to achieve that 10% on a traditional western animal based diet, therefore suggests avoiding animal based protein. He does not say that an occasional meal with meat is harmful.

A varied Whole Foods plant based diet just happens to average out at around 10% protein of calories.

Re: “The China Study” and Longevity

#24

Post by _bxg1 »

Projects like Jupyter have so much potential to empower individuals to understand data and verify claims. But not in their current form. Immediately after the introduction, the author starts diving in to Python and different interpreters and dependencies and then a wall of code. Anyone who's never seen code, much less heard of Python, would be immediately turned-off. Just a tiny bit of extra work on top of projects like this could exponentially increase their target audience and turn thousands into amateur fact-checkers.

Re: “The China Study” and Longevity

#25

Post by Nazzareno »

I read that book a few years ago, but I remember several researches that proved the correlation between casein (milk proteins) and the cancer development. Which doesn't mean that casein causes cancer, but that casein speeds up cancer development. SO if you have a little cancer, with animal protein it will develop faster. The article skips this relevant topic.

Re: “The China Study” and Longevity

#26

Post by elevenoh »

Nazzareno wrote: post #25

I read that book a few years ago, but I remember several researches that proved the correlation between casein (milk proteins) and the cancer development. Which doesn't mean that casein causes cancer, but that casein speeds up cancer development. SO if you have a little cancer, with animal protein it will develop faster. The article skips this relevant topic.

Casein != animal protein.

Re: “The China Study” and Longevity

#27

Post by carlmr »

Nazzareno wrote: post #25

I read that book a few years ago, but I remember several researches that proved the correlation between casein (milk proteins) and the cancer development. Which doesn't mean that casein causes cancer, but that casein speeds up cancer development. SO if you have a little cancer, with animal protein it will develop faster. The article skips this relevant topic.

I read that you always have ~200 "little cancers" in your system floating around, but your immune system usually catches them.

If they all are nurtured better your immune system has more to deal with. So in a sense wouldn't it be the same?

Re: “The China Study” and Longevity

#28

Post by PeOe »

It seems the author is already kind of biased when he set out to analyse the data.. use of the term 'overzealous vegans' in the first paragraph sets of a few alarms for me.

I think it would be interesting to look at other long term studies (like the 7th adventist study someone else mentioned here) as well as studies that look at plant based eating as a cure/preventative method for more specific/acute diseases (like Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn's WFPBN solution for cardiovascular disease, or Dr. Greger's 'How Not to Die' which compiles and summarizes research in the WFPB space https://nutritionfacts.org/book/)

Re: “The China Study” and Longevity

#29

Post by bjoli »

getpost wrote: post #5

Denise Minger thoroughly critiques T. Colin Campbell's (seemingly incompetent) interpretation of the data in this study. https://deniseminger.com/the-china-study/ EDIT: TCC's reply: http://www.vegsource.com/news/2010/07/china-study-author-col...

I let my biostatistician friend have a look at her critique ha wasnt impressed and commented om her blog. His comment was promptly removed.

Many comments criticising her statistical errors have been removed, which makes me draw the conclusion that she mostly just wants to sell books and write a popular blog than be att part of serious academic discussion.

Re: “The China Study” and Longevity

#30

Post by shlant »

elevenoh wrote: post #26
Nazzareno wrote: post #25

I read that book a few years ago, but I remember several researches that proved the correlation between casein (milk proteins) and the cancer development. Which doesn't mean that casein causes cancer, but that casein speeds up cancer development. SO if you have a little cancer, with animal protein it will develop faster. The article skips this relevant topic.

Casein != animal protein.

not sure what point you are trying to make here. Casein is a protein. Sources in our diet come exclusively from mammalian milk. A protein from animal sources = animal protein does it not?
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