Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Schizophrenic Brains Not Fooled by Optical Illusion

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 32 posts

Re: Schizophrenic Brains Not Fooled by Optical Illusion

#21

Post by wilzy »

sp4rki wrote: post #6

I actually saw a concave face until I read the article. Now I see a regular face. I'm not drunk, high, or otherwise on any substance. I hope I'm not schizophrenic, though for some reason I've always thought that it would be awesome to have it like for a few days. So yeah. Concave faces.

Given the absence of a highly detailed model, in this case a Charlie Chaplain mask, the illusory effects may be due to the absence of sufficient visual depth cues - similar to the effects seen in the "Spinning Dancer" effect. As a further example, next time you see a plane in the air making a turn at a great distance from you, there are actually two ways you could perceive its direction - all dependant on what you convince your brain it to be first. I would not draw too many conclusions from such a vague study.

Re: Schizophrenic Brains Not Fooled by Optical Illusion

#22

Post by sp4rki »

wilzy wrote: post #21
sp4rki wrote: post #6

I actually saw a concave face until I read the article. Now I see a regular face. I'm not drunk, high, or otherwise on any substance. I hope I'm not schizophrenic, though for some reason I've always thought that it would be awesome to have it like for a few days. So yeah. Concave faces.

Given the absence of a highly detailed model, in this case a Charlie Chaplain mask, the illusory effects may be due to the absence of sufficient visual depth cues - similar to the effects seen in the "Spinning Dancer" effect. As a further example, next time you see a plane in the air making a turn at a great distance from you, there are actually two ways you could perceive its direction - all dependant on what you co…

I agree. It's all dependent on what your brain sees first. It so happens that the absence of visual detail makes it easier to decide the mask as seen from the front instead of from the back. The moment your brain is told that it should not be seeing the concave face a switch turns on telling you how to 'see' the mask.

Re: Schizophrenic Brains Not Fooled by Optical Illusion

#23

Post by runningdogx »

DevX101 wrote: post #12

Am I the only one who has to always look up the definition (w/ example image) for concave and convex to differentiate them?

It's probably one of those things people end up memorizing, when learning about lenses or 3d figures like polyhedrons. It's like latitude and longitude. You can try to derive meaning from e.g. "lat = lateral", but then, do the lines go across or are they measuring distance across (which would make the lines vertical)? Either you memorize the correct answer, or you can easily get mixed up by over-analyzing the meaning.

concave -> (cave, cavity) -> hole

convex, you sort of just have to memorize. As best I can tell from introspection, I've associated the sound/visual of "vex" with "outward"

Re: Schizophrenic Brains Not Fooled by Optical Illusion

#24

Post by Trindaz »

Maybe the fact that I'm the only one mentioning this means I'm a little less intelligent than the rest of us, but...

Isn't a 'real' illusion one that causes you to see something that isn't objectively there? For example, The Grid illusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_illusion).

If you find an alternative way to create an identical image, then it's forgery, not an illusion.

Put another way, the Grid Illusion is to "worng sleplnig" what the Hollow Mask is to "conversation" (a word in both the English and French languages)

Re: Schizophrenic Brains Not Fooled by Optical Illusion

#25

Post by davidmathers »

Trindaz wrote: post #24

Maybe the fact that I'm the only one mentioning this means I'm a little less intelligent than the rest of us, but... Isn't a 'real' illusion one that causes you to see something that isn't objectively there? For example, The Grid illusion ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_illusion ). If you find an alternative way to create an identical image, then it's forgery, not an illusion. Put another way, the Grid Illusion i…

Did you watch the video?

Re: Schizophrenic Brains Not Fooled by Optical Illusion

#26

Post by Trindaz »

davidmathers wrote: post #25
Trindaz wrote: post #24

Maybe the fact that I'm the only one mentioning this means I'm a little less intelligent than the rest of us, but... Isn't a 'real' illusion one that causes you to see something that isn't objectively there? For example, The Grid illusion ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_illusion ). If you find an alternative way to create an identical image, then it's forgery, not an illusion. Put another way, the Grid Illusion i…

Did you watch the video?

Yes. Continuing the word based analogy, the video is just permutations of "conversation" leading up to it's correct spelling, then more permutations.

If you take the frame that show's the inside of the mask alone, is there a way to prove the image is of a concave object? To see it as convex is arguably 'wrong' but it's a moot point because you're looking at something that is objectively identical to a convex object anyway.

Couldn't I just extend your argument to say the fact that you see a face at the very start of the movie is an illusion? After all it's a mask, not an actual face.

Re: Schizophrenic Brains Not Fooled by Optical Illusion

#27

Post by apl »

pyre wrote: post #18

I remember reading and article/post/whatever a while back that said that some natives/tribes somewhere didn't see optical illusions. The implication was that it might be a product of more industrialized living. ( I may be confusing this a bit here. The first part may have been an article, and the second part may have been part of an HN discussion on it. )

There are certain (secluded) populations that do not report certain illusions (e.g., Muller-Lyer effect) as strongly as Western subjects do. Standard explanation is that, living in architecturally under-developed environments, they lack experience with corners, thereby diminishing corner-related illusions.

But that's not immunity, it's merely a highly interesting artifact. Goes to show that psychology's biggest problem might be excessive reliance on college students as test subjects.

Re: Schizophrenic Brains Not Fooled by Optical Illusion

#28

Post by marchdown »

runningdogx wrote: post #23
DevX101 wrote: post #12

Am I the only one who has to always look up the definition (w/ example image) for concave and convex to differentiate them?

It's probably one of those things people end up memorizing, when learning about lenses or 3d figures like polyhedrons. It's like latitude and longitude. You can try to derive meaning from e.g. "lat = lateral", but then, do the lines go across or are they measuring distance across (which would make the lines vertical)? Either you memorize the correct answer, or you can easily get mixed up by over-analyzing the meaning…

Vex, as in vertex. Bulging outwards. I think the proper way to remember those (I've struggled with them too) is actually use them a lot. For example, some mathematicians study convex geometry, which is a meaningful subject on its own.

*(lazy ninja edit)

Re: Schizophrenic Brains Not Fooled by Optical Illusion

#29

Post by Alex3917 »

dean wrote: post #14

I love the irony that sufferers of a disease "characterized by hallucinations, delusions", see the actual visual information while healthy viewers are utterly unable to see it. And this: "Schizophrenia patients, meanwhile, may be unable to modulate this pathway, accepting the concave face as reality." is just too ironic, considering that the concave face is reality. Maybe Schizophrenics are not the delusional ones.

There are actually several diagnosable mental illnesses where the main feature or one of the main features is being able to see reality more accurately than other people. This is especially true with certain types of depression depression (e.g. depressive realism) and autism. My favorite though is delusional disorder, which basically just means that you're happier than other people think you should be given your circumstances.

Re: Schizophrenic Brains Not Fooled by Optical Illusion

#30

Post by rdrimmie »

runningdogx wrote: post #23
DevX101 wrote: post #12

Am I the only one who has to always look up the definition (w/ example image) for concave and convex to differentiate them?

It's probably one of those things people end up memorizing, when learning about lenses or 3d figures like polyhedrons. It's like latitude and longitude. You can try to derive meaning from e.g. "lat = lateral", but then, do the lines go across or are they measuring distance across (which would make the lines vertical)? Either you memorize the correct answer, or you can easily get mixed up by over-analyzing the meaning…

I've been doing a lot of geo-related work lately and confounding latitude and longitude was a regular source of logic errors. Only useful for North America, but my mnemonic for lat/lng is "latitude has a positive attitude". It doesn't necessarily help when identifying which is which on a map, but when using them for calculating proximity or drawing polygons on a map it works every time.
Post reply on HN