Before the wild speculation, here's some words from an actual aviation expert, Greg Feith: It is sad to hear some of the “junior investigator” talking heads make a storyline out of factoids or no facts about the 737 MAX. They embellish their credentials to sound smart when in fact they have no clue and say things about analyzing data that doesn’t exist.... A good friend of mine who is a former airline captain and fli…
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Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
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Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#22Before the wild speculation, here's some words from an actual aviation expert, Greg Feith: It is sad to hear some of the “junior investigator” talking heads make a storyline out of factoids or no facts about the 737 MAX. They embellish their credentials to sound smart when in fact they have no clue and say things about analyzing data that doesn’t exist.... A good friend of mine who is a former airline captain and fli…
If their maintenance crew and pilots were solely to blame, I would expect to see a good deal more Ethiopian planes crashing.
Of course, it could be (and maybe even is likely) that a properly trained maintenance crew won't let the AoA sensor fly in a bad state. And of course it could be (and maybe even is likely) that a properly trained pilot will be able to correct the issue in flight.
But that doesn't pass the blame. The truth is that Ethiopian pilots and maintenance crews seem totally capable of keeping the rest of their planes in the air. Why has Boeing made a plane that is so much harder for them to fly safely? Is there any argument that the MAX is easier or safer to maintain/fly than the other planes Ethiopian flies?
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#23Before the wild speculation, here's some words from an actual aviation expert, Greg Feith: It is sad to hear some of the “junior investigator” talking heads make a storyline out of factoids or no facts about the 737 MAX. They embellish their credentials to sound smart when in fact they have no clue and say things about analyzing data that doesn’t exist.... A good friend of mine who is a former airline captain and fli…
ASRS reports describing similar incidents and complaints about insufficient training and incomplete manuals. It looks like Boeing was able to get 737-Max pass as 737-NG variant without good differences training and better manuals.
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#241. Boeing's suggested process (including flipping the two trim switches and spinning a wheel) does not work for some reason.
-or-
2. The Ethiopian pilots did not follow this process.
I see #1 as putting a huge, huge amount of blame on Boeing and the FAA - especially given their months of "safe plane" reaction after Lion Air and their cavalier few days after Ethopian.
I see #2 as still keeping a good deal of blame on Boeing, but also adding a significant training+capability element to Ethiopian and the pilots. Since Lion Air, how much had Boeing done to specify that the 737-MAX and the 737-NG are not the same plane and require different things to be aware of? Could a 737-MAX pilot really not have run through in their head a thousand times what MCAS related issues look like and what they would do if they started having those issues?
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#25In the likely event that this is another MCAS related crash, I see only two possible reasons: 1. Boeing's suggested process (including flipping the two trim switches and spinning a wheel) does not work for some reason. -or- 2. The Ethiopian pilots did not follow this process. I see #1 as putting a huge, huge amount of blame on Boeing and the FAA - especially given their months of "safe plane" reaction after Lion Air…
I'm not sure where they got that from, but why would it be okay if the US pilots got training immediately, while others had to wait?
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#26Before the wild speculation, here's some words from an actual aviation expert, Greg Feith: It is sad to hear some of the “junior investigator” talking heads make a storyline out of factoids or no facts about the 737 MAX. They embellish their credentials to sound smart when in fact they have no clue and say things about analyzing data that doesn’t exist.... A good friend of mine who is a former airline captain and fli…
It seriously is a standard heads-up to alert you to any potential issues that might occur with the aircraft. Inoperative systems, etc.
Even in general aviation, if you look at the logbook and see this is the first time this aircraft has flown since an engine teardown, you want to be aware of that in the light of monitoring your engine's readouts. If you suddenly see that the oil pressure is dropping or something, that's something you would immediately want to take seriously. Recent maintenance can be the difference between "I'll have the mechanic look at that when I get back" and immediately taking corrective action.
There was a plane (Cessna iirc) nearby me that went down from a similar issue. When you change the oil there is a drain tube and some leftover oil tends to drip out all over the cowling. The mechanic apparently got in the habit of rolling up some paper towel and shoving it in the drain tube to absorb the drips. Well, this time he forgot to close the drain cock. It held enough pressure to take off apparently, then blew out in-flight and the engine seized. You gotta watch for that stuff, first person to fly an aircraft after a maintenance issue needs to be aware of it.
(immediately taking corrective action is safer but planes are complex and if you immediately turned around the first time an engine ran a little hot you'd never get anywhere. They have redundant systems for a reason, and if anything commercial airliners are even more redundant and even more willing to fly with inoperative non-essential equipment, because there's so much money on the line. Commercial airliners fly with equipment that's broken literally all the time, there is very probably broken equipment on any given flight you take... more like probably several pieces broken.)
Not to say that the pilots here didn't do everything right... we don't know yet either way. Boeing certainly has some 'splaining to do regardless, there are design flaws here that apparently have caused this problem to occur quite frequently. Just because you hope the pilots would have caught it doesn't mean you want to tempt fate repeatedly.
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#27Is there another way to view the text?
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#28"You're in private mode" (no article for me). Is there another way to view the text?
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#29In the likely event that this is another MCAS related crash, I see only two possible reasons: 1. Boeing's suggested process (including flipping the two trim switches and spinning a wheel) does not work for some reason. -or- 2. The Ethiopian pilots did not follow this process. I see #1 as putting a huge, huge amount of blame on Boeing and the FAA - especially given their months of "safe plane" reaction after Lion Air…
I was thinking about what you call '#2' the other day, when a family member remarked that the FAA was right to keep the planes in the sky because US airline unions felt like their pilots had received adequate advice and information from Boeing. I'm not sure where they got that from, but why would it be okay if the US pilots got training immediately, while others had to wait?
The reality is that occident pilots tend to be a cut above the rest of the world. American Airline pilots tend to have military aviation experience and/or thousands of hours of experience. Pilots in less developed nations tend to have significantly less training, I heard the copilot of the lion air flight only had a few hundred hours of experience.
Re: Boeing 737 Max Hit Trouble Right Away, Pilot’s Tense Radio Messages Show
#30Before the wild speculation, here's some words from an actual aviation expert, Greg Feith: It is sad to hear some of the “junior investigator” talking heads make a storyline out of factoids or no facts about the 737 MAX. They embellish their credentials to sound smart when in fact they have no clue and say things about analyzing data that doesn’t exist.... A good friend of mine who is a former airline captain and fli…
Ethiopian has ~100 planes flying around on any given day, and hasn't had a serious crash in 9 years. Presumably the skill of their pilots and maintenance crews is pretty similiar across MAX and non-MAX planes. If their maintenance crew and pilots were solely to blame, I would expect to see a good deal more Ethiopian planes crashing. Of course, it could be (and maybe even is likely) that a properly trained maintenance…