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Google Finds That Perks Can't Keep Some Employees From Leaving

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Re: Google Finds That Perks Can't Keep Some Employees From Leaving

#21

Post by gojomo »

mrtron wrote: post #15
LPTS wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it's a bit of a cheap shot. I don't think it's inaccurate. There is no doubt the ad system is valuable. There is no doubt that creating the advertising systems google uses would be an intellectual challenge. But people don't want to see ads. This work is mostly the work of deciding how to best trick people into being distracted by text they don't want to see in the first place. The better the ad people do the…

I think that we will see excessive commercialization as something evil in 50+ years, along with the whole institution of corporations. So, going on this train of thought, how can you be a slave to any corporation where the huge number of employees are making very few very rich and die happy? On my death bed I will not look back and say 'I am really glad I worked for X and sacrificed time from my friends and family to…

If you live in a highly-developed country, 'the whole institution of corporations', legal fiction/invention that it is, is probably responsible for most of your modern comforts. The institution of corporations is certainly responsible for the startup opportunities cherished by this community.

On your death bed, you might wish somebody had worked harder at their company to cure whatever's killing you.

Re: Google Finds That Perks Can't Keep Some Employees From Leaving

#22

Post by mattmaroon »

dcurtis wrote: post #10
mattmaroon wrote: post #4

Everyone keeps referring to their lunches as "haute cuisine". Maybe I missed something the couple times I ate there, but I don't think it's fair to refer to a buffet as that. I guess relative to the normal corporate vending machines it's pretty awesome, but it's far from a Michelin 3 Star joint.

Are you kidding? How many buffets have you been to with real, decently awesome sushi? Filet Mignon? It's a several leaps above Hometown Buffet in so many ways...

A few, though none outside of a casino. Still, even those are not really haute cuisine.

Re: Google Finds That Perks Can't Keep Some Employees From Leaving

#23

Post by aston »

tdavis wrote: post #12

It must just be me, but if I had a job at Google I wouldn't leave it to go work at a place like Facebook. All they have going for them is mass adoption which doesn't mean much without a worthwhile monetization strategy which they've yet to find. Work for a high-flying tech company with more perks than anybody, 20% of my time to work on whatever I want and a proven method for generating massive income or jump ship to…

The perks at Facebook are basically the same as those at Google, but with a lot more freedom for your work (in the form of a lot less supervision). Plus brand new options that aren't nearly underwater.

Re: Google Finds That Perks Can't Keep Some Employees From Leaving

#24

Post by ambition »

I think of job satisfaction as a function with weighted attributes. There's a "perks at work" attribute, a money attribute, an attribute for how much you like your team, how many weekly hours the work culture demands of you, how much you like your boss, whether the work is meaningful and related to your life goals, the opportunities to advance in the company and to grow as a person, whether you can live in a location you like, etc. etc. Google's problem relative to this article is that for many people, the "perks at work" weighting isn't that high. So no matter how good Google's perks are, other factors can dominate.

I think there might be a bit of an effect where people don't appreciate what they don't have to pay for, too.

Re: Google Finds That Perks Can't Keep Some Employees From Leaving

#25

Post by ambition »

neilc wrote: post #20
wallflower wrote: post #9

Outside the bubble of SV/Google, some of us accept free coffee (that we have to make ourselves) in the morning as a perk

I wouldn't call that "outside the bubble of SV/Google"; I would say that is "inside the bubble of working a crappy job". There are many companies outside SV/Google that offer far more perks than free coffee in the morning (and there are even SV companies like Intel that don't offer even that).

Lack of perks, by itself, does not a crappy job make. It may be indicative of other crappiness, but not certainly not definitive.

Re: Google Finds That Perks Can't Keep Some Employees From Leaving

#26

Post by skmurphy »

ambition wrote: post #24

I think of job satisfaction as a function with weighted attributes. There's a "perks at work" attribute, a money attribute, an attribute for how much you like your team, how many weekly hours the work culture demands of you, how much you like your boss, whether the work is meaningful and related to your life goals, the opportunities to advance in the company and to grow as a person, whether you can live in a location…

The title positions Google as a nice resort no one should want to leave. But for most engineers (who would have pursued a different career if they were purely money motivated) salary and perks are "hygiene factors", which can dissatisfy if they are inadequate but can't really satisfy. See Hertzberg's "Two Factor" theory of job satisfaction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_factor_theory

Re: Google Finds That Perks Can't Keep Some Employees From Leaving

#28

Post by blogimus »

KirinDave wrote: post #17
menloparkbum wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is much easier to find a top notch web developer than it is to find someone top notch who is good at C++. This is the case anywhere in Silicon Valley where C++ programmers who actually know what they are doing are needed. VMWare, for instance, pays like $160,000 starting salary to C++ wizards.

> It is much easier to find a top notch web developer than it is to find someone top notch who is good at C++. I disagree with this. Top notch people in web development are extremely rare. You can find a lot of mediocre people, or motivated people, but finding people both motivated and talented is hard. It's also unfortunate that Google limits itself to C++, but that's a whole different story.

I agree that it is harder to find top notch people than mediocre, that just seems natural, following the talent bell curve(most in the middle level of ability, some very poor, some excel) but how does Google limits itself to C++? I read a lot of noise on Google using Python: http://www.python.org/about/quotes/ (and this is just a starting point of the info on Google using Python)

Re: Google Finds That Perks Can't Keep Some Employees From Leaving

#29

Post by mrtron »

gojomo wrote: post #21
mrtron wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that we will see excessive commercialization as something evil in 50+ years, along with the whole institution of corporations. So, going on this train of thought, how can you be a slave to any corporation where the huge number of employees are making very few very rich and die happy? On my death bed I will not look back and say 'I am really glad I worked for X and sacrificed time from my friends and family to…

If you live in a highly-developed country, 'the whole institution of corporations', legal fiction/invention that it is, is probably responsible for most of your modern comforts. The institution of corporations is certainly responsible for the startup opportunities cherished by this community. On your death bed, you might wish somebody had worked harder at their company to cure whatever's killing you.

I don't think there currently is a better social and economic system than capitalism and corporations. What I was trying to say wasn't really anything more than most people who work for ANY corporation (not just advertising) probably can't reflect and say they lived idealistically in regards to morals.

Also I was trying to say exactly that: I want to do all I can regardless of what I am doing or where I am working.

Current stress is crushing my writing skills, especially coding.

Re: Google Finds That Perks Can't Keep Some Employees From Leaving

#30

Post by menloparkbum »

blogimus wrote: post #28
KirinDave wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is much easier to find a top notch web developer than it is to find someone top notch who is good at C++. I disagree with this. Top notch people in web development are extremely rare. You can find a lot of mediocre people, or motivated people, but finding people both motivated and talented is hard. It's also unfortunate that Google limits itself to C++, but that's a whole different story.

I agree that it is harder to find top notch people than mediocre, that just seems natural, following the talent bell curve(most in the middle level of ability, some very poor, some excel) but how does Google limits itself to C++? I read a lot of noise on Google using Python: http://www.python.org/about/quotes/ (and this is just a starting point of the info on Google using Python)

Google doesn't limit itself to C++, they just happen to need C++ programmers at the moment.
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