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Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

nytimes.com

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Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#21

Post by thetechlead »

ddoolin wrote: post #2

> “The actual and intended effect of these prohibitions is to bar Huawei from significant segments of the U.S. market for telecommunications equipment and services, thereby inflicting immediate and ongoing economic, competitive, and reputational harms on Huawei,” the company’s lawyers wrote in the suit. This is incredulously ironic coming from a Chinese company. China, who sets up just about every barrier imaginable…

You are confusing Chinese companies with Chinese government. In most areas, whatever restrictions/laws on foreign businesses, are also put on Chinese companies (private). Most foreign companies lost Chinese market due to fierce competition from local counterparts, not any imaginable barrier. Back in 2000s, Chinese government even gave green light when Huawei tried to sell [ref] itself to Motorola, but only been turned down by the American side, and in the past few months Huawei ascends from nowhere to the #1 target of US spy agencies. See the irony?

edit ref: https://www.ft.com/content/fa8e7ab4-3905-11e9-b856-5404d3811...

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#22

Post by atoav »

geowwy wrote: post #15
rakoo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huawei, and the Chinese industry in general is at the forefront of 5G coming soon, and the West is mad that China can be more advanced than them and scared that all the equipment we use for deploying 5G is from them and, consequently, full of (not backdoors) spying capabilities. As someone whose country isn't part of five eyes, the hypocrisy makes me quietly laugh. (Edit: updated for less gratuitous accusations)

The issue is not back doors in my opinion. It's more that the US is expecting 5G to be big (really big) and they don't want to world relying on China for their infrastructure. It's bad for (America's) national security and it gives China too much clout.

Sadly the five eyes couldn’t proof a single backdoor in Huawei products while the history of backdoors in US hardware is quite well documented.

If the five eyes hadn’t shown time and time again, that they don’t give a damn about the laws and rights of other democratic nations, and quite definitly use “security” as a token for industrial spionage, I might show more support.

But please show more than some fiction in which Huwawei has backdoors nobody managed to proof just yet.

Yeah they could. But do they?

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#23

Post by zaphirplane »

dirtyid wrote: post #7
ganoushoreilly wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely a case of using the somewhat fair US court systems to enforce a do as we say not as we do scenario. I imagine the USG will envoke national security protections to limit exposure of any information as they have in the past. I don't really see this case going anywhere, more so with EU countries making similar claims and allegations of their operating practices.

IMO Huawei's just seeking to rehabilitate their image, if the US refuses to publicly release evidence that contradicts the preponderance of sources that couldn't find back doors, then the entire US campaign against Huawei can be dismissed as a smear campaign. It's going to make US look dirty/petty and allows Huawei/China to save face. Huawei shares source code with GCHQ and US have already hacked into Huawei internal…

What evidence is required to support the statement “a Chinese company will do whatever it’s told to do by the communist party irrespective of the law”

The people that keep trying to defend that, have special Place with the people defending tobacco companies.

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#24

Post by geezerjay »

thetechlead wrote: post #21
ddoolin wrote: post #2

> “The actual and intended effect of these prohibitions is to bar Huawei from significant segments of the U.S. market for telecommunications equipment and services, thereby inflicting immediate and ongoing economic, competitive, and reputational harms on Huawei,” the company’s lawyers wrote in the suit. This is incredulously ironic coming from a Chinese company. China, who sets up just about every barrier imaginable…

You are confusing Chinese companies with Chinese government. In most areas, whatever restrictions/laws on foreign businesses, are also put on Chinese companies (private). Most foreign companies lost Chinese market due to fierce competition from local counterparts, not any imaginable barrier. Back in 2000s, Chinese government even gave green light when Huawei tried to sell [ref] itself to Motorola, but only been turne…

> You are confusing Chinese companies with Chinese government.

Is there any difference, really, specially if said company is a corporate arm of China's military?

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#25

Post by thisgoodlife »

geezerjay wrote: post #24
thetechlead wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing Chinese companies with Chinese government. In most areas, whatever restrictions/laws on foreign businesses, are also put on Chinese companies (private). Most foreign companies lost Chinese market due to fierce competition from local counterparts, not any imaginable barrier. Back in 2000s, Chinese government even gave green light when Huawei tried to sell [ref] itself to Motorola, but only been turne…

> You are confusing Chinese companies with Chinese government. Is there any difference, really, specially if said company is a corporate arm of China's military?

wait, what? Isn't Huawei a private company?

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#26

Post by pyrale »

zaphirplane wrote: post #23
dirtyid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO Huawei's just seeking to rehabilitate their image, if the US refuses to publicly release evidence that contradicts the preponderance of sources that couldn't find back doors, then the entire US campaign against Huawei can be dismissed as a smear campaign. It's going to make US look dirty/petty and allows Huawei/China to save face. Huawei shares source code with GCHQ and US have already hacked into Huawei internal…

What evidence is required to support the statement “a Chinese company will do whatever it’s told to do by the communist party irrespective of the law” The people that keep trying to defend that, have special Place with the people defending tobacco companies.

That quote does apply to the US as well. As a reminder, the NSA was revealed to have an established practice of backdooring export Cisco routers.

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#27

Post by dirtyid »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #18
dirtyid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO Huawei's just seeking to rehabilitate their image, if the US refuses to publicly release evidence that contradicts the preponderance of sources that couldn't find back doors, then the entire US campaign against Huawei can be dismissed as a smear campaign. It's going to make US look dirty/petty and allows Huawei/China to save face. Huawei shares source code with GCHQ and US have already hacked into Huawei internal…

> most countries probably leans towards Huawei anyway (more advanced and cheaper) cheaper yes, but not really more advanced. (speaking of their RAN technology as well as their O&M plane, also their cloud is a clusterfcuk) > Hell even 3/5 Five Eyes are currently undecided. could you elaborate a bit more please? My understanding was that Australia, NZ, and UK were all aligned with the narrative pushed by the US. Which…

Australia was firm ban before US push due to past strains with China. US is obviously going to ban.

UK (Along with Germany and Italy) said Huawei concerns could be managed a couple weeks ago within 24 hours of each other. Shortly after that NZ, previously seemed firm ban, had their PM publicly clarify on radio that Huawei was not ruled out. A bunch of Canadian articles released about how UK waffling allowed fellow allies room to breath and "make independent" decision soon followed. China hit Australia with some coal ban, Canada with canola oil (over Meng extradition). I think everyone's just trying to manage the situation until after US-China trade deal settles. UK needs Chinese money because of Brexit. NZ also needs Chinese money and has... nothing much to steal. Canada... well I don't think we can hand Meng over to US and ban Huawei without being in the penalty box forever.

Unrelated Poland wants to US base to buffer against Russia, they came down hard on Huawei because US won't base with Huawei infrastructure. Hence Germany considering Huawei is causing a lot of tension with all the US bases. Shouldn't have spied on Merkel I guess. It's all a mess.

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#28

Post by atoav »

zaphirplane wrote: post #23
dirtyid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO Huawei's just seeking to rehabilitate their image, if the US refuses to publicly release evidence that contradicts the preponderance of sources that couldn't find back doors, then the entire US campaign against Huawei can be dismissed as a smear campaign. It's going to make US look dirty/petty and allows Huawei/China to save face. Huawei shares source code with GCHQ and US have already hacked into Huawei internal…

What evidence is required to support the statement “a Chinese company will do whatever it’s told to do by the communist party irrespective of the law” The people that keep trying to defend that, have special Place with the people defending tobacco companies.

Actual evidence of backdoors would be a start.

There is a long list of state security enforced backdoors in american products. The list for Huawei is short. The US typically assumes the tactics itself uses must be used by anybody else.

If you want us to choose between the Chinese and the Five Eyes spying on us, providing actual evidence for Chinese spying would be worth a lot for the side that has at least traces of “democratic oversight” left as a figleaf.

I can certainly imagine incentives for the Chinese why they wouldn’t risk their long term gain for a short term spying information. To spy on everybody might be totally without alternative from the perspective of a struggling empire that crumbles on all corners, but not for a newcomer who might win more by not killing its tech industries by showing they can’t be trusted.

Still, if there is compelling evidence I might change my mind on the matter.

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#29

Post by zaphirplane »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #18
dirtyid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO Huawei's just seeking to rehabilitate their image, if the US refuses to publicly release evidence that contradicts the preponderance of sources that couldn't find back doors, then the entire US campaign against Huawei can be dismissed as a smear campaign. It's going to make US look dirty/petty and allows Huawei/China to save face. Huawei shares source code with GCHQ and US have already hacked into Huawei internal…

> most countries probably leans towards Huawei anyway (more advanced and cheaper) cheaper yes, but not really more advanced. (speaking of their RAN technology as well as their O&M plane, also their cloud is a clusterfcuk) > Hell even 3/5 Five Eyes are currently undecided. could you elaborate a bit more please? My understanding was that Australia, NZ, and UK were all aligned with the narrative pushed by the US. Which…

Uk is a user thou

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#30

Post by entity345 »

geezerjay wrote: post #24
thetechlead wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing Chinese companies with Chinese government. In most areas, whatever restrictions/laws on foreign businesses, are also put on Chinese companies (private). Most foreign companies lost Chinese market due to fierce competition from local counterparts, not any imaginable barrier. Back in 2000s, Chinese government even gave green light when Huawei tried to sell [ref] itself to Motorola, but only been turne…

> You are confusing Chinese companies with Chinese government. Is there any difference, really, specially if said company is a corporate arm of China's military?

Nortel once had a CEO that was a former US Navy Admiral.

Was Nortel a corporate arm of the US military?

Edit: I flagged your comment because it's fake news and because you downvote anyone who do not agree.

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