Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages • Hacker News Board

Re: Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages

#21

Post by dontbenebby » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #10

mikro2nd wrote: post #3

Sounds like USPS is joining the panopticon-purveying surveillance capitalism game. "It's only metadata..."

It’s well known the FBI monitors mail going through USPS. They are able to flag addresses or people for inspection and backtrack all mail.[1][2] People used to send a lot more bombs through the mail and recently anthrax. I’m supprised it’s not so well known. I’m not sure you have an expectation of privacy sending mail through anyone like USPS, FedEx, and UPS. They can open whatever they want at any time. Tracking pac…

>I’m not sure you have an expectation of privacy sending mail through anyone like USPS, FedEx, and UPS

One of these things is not like the others.

By law, first class mail cannot be opened without a warrant, absent exigent circumstances (eg: it's ticking), it's crossing an international border, or subject to a FISA warrant.[1]

Those protections do not apply to UPS or Fedex.

[1] https://www.rstreet.org/2014/11/19/yes-the-government-can-op...

Re: Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages

#22

Post by briffle » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #8

omilu wrote: post #2

This feature is great. See a grayscale scale image of the envelopes and packages being delivered to your house everyday.

What decision or choices do you make based on that new data stream? What is the advantage, because I really don’t get the idea. Edit: I see below; that theft awareness and not having to go check the mailbox are the features... ok, I guess. I have trouble believing that this applies to so many people they need to support a public facing service for it.

My parents live in a small subdivision in the country. they don't always walk to the end of their long driveway to check their mail. they do every few days. (or when they take the trash down, etc) They have had a rash of people going through mailboxes, looking for money, checks, and CC applications. twice now, the ONLY reason my parents found out their mail was stolen was a neighbor found a bunch of ripped open envelopes in a ditch down the road, with my parents (and many of their neighbors) mail in it. It may have happened more often, but they can't report stolen mail to the postmaster general if they don't know it was stolen.

Having the ability to see what mail is coming will allow them to see if there are 'important' things coming, so they can either go get the mail that day, or know if its missing.

Re: Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages

#23

Post by omilu » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

artificial wrote: post #6

mikro2nd wrote: post #3

Sounds like USPS is joining the panopticon-purveying surveillance capitalism game. "It's only metadata..."

Joining? This is the result of it. Every parcel and package is photographed and available to LE.

I'm pretty sure it's all photographed and stored wether u sign up or not.

Re: Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages

#24

Post by dontbenebby » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

My only complaint is you need a separate account for each address. (So if you have a PO box and a residence, you need to sign up for 2 separate USPS.com accounts to get informed delivery for both)

Re: Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages

#25

Post by dontbenebby » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #15

kawfey wrote: post #4

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2018/11/u-s-secret-service-warns...

Maybe I just didn’t see the attack vector clearly, but it appears Krebs and security issue is that a scammer can target you, sign you up for this, see that you are a CapitalOne account holder - THEN use that information to further attack you say by opening a new account at the same bank. Seems like a pretty flimsy side information gathering service. If an attacker has enough information to add an account for you, the…

I think the attack is that they can see a credit card is on it's way to your mailbox, then snatch it out of the mailbox while you're at work.

Things like this are why I moved all my financial stuff over to a PO box.

Re: Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages

#26

Post by dontbenebby » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:37 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #19

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want the government to open and log your mail? You and I are surely very different people :)

The government can already open your non-first class mail without a warrant, and if its first class mail, I'm not convinced it'll be hard to get a warrant. The problem with commercial mail processors is that you can't forward mail out from them like you can with a PO box or other traditional address. So if you get an address from one of them, and then either change providers or they go out of business, you're SOL. Th…

>The government can already open your non-first class mail without a warrant, and if its first class mail, I'm not convinced it'll be hard to get a warrant.

But IIRC first class mail travels rather quickly. Now you need a warrant for the apartment/house because it was delivered before a warrant could be written. Much harder to get.

Re: Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages

#27

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:38 PM UTC

dontbenebby wrote: post #26

toomuchtodo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government can already open your non-first class mail without a warrant, and if its first class mail, I'm not convinced it'll be hard to get a warrant. The problem with commercial mail processors is that you can't forward mail out from them like you can with a PO box or other traditional address. So if you get an address from one of them, and then either change providers or they go out of business, you're SOL. Th…

>The government can already open your non-first class mail without a warrant, and if its first class mail, I'm not convinced it'll be hard to get a warrant. But IIRC first class mail travels rather quickly. Now you need a warrant for the apartment/house because it was delivered before a warrant could be written. Much harder to get.

We could argue this all day. Let's not! I'm okay parting with some privacy and security for convenience to avoid losing paper mail, have it returned undeliverable, ease my management of receiving it, etc. It's not for everyone, but for my use cases, I desire it. Provide the service, and I'll be a customer for life.

It only takes one lost paper bill or notice to make life painful for a bit.

Re: Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages

#28

Post by dontbenebby » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #27

dontbenebby wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The government can already open your non-first class mail without a warrant, and if its first class mail, I'm not convinced it'll be hard to get a warrant. But IIRC first class mail travels rather quickly. Now you need a warrant for the apartment/house because it was delivered before a warrant could be written. Much harder to get.

We could argue this all day. Let's not! I'm okay parting with some privacy and security for convenience to avoid losing paper mail, have it returned undeliverable, ease my management of receiving it, etc. It's not for everyone, but for my use cases, I desire it. Provide the service, and I'll be a customer for life. It only takes one lost paper bill or notice to make life painful for a bit.

As long as the service is opt in, I don't have an issue. My problem is eroding constitutional protections for people who don't want to trade liberty for convenience.

Re: Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages

#29

Post by Shivetya » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

visviva wrote: post #5

Why though?

I use it to know when something important is to arrive. they also will list packages to. I don't care for much of what shows. Magazines never have a picture but get a blank stating no picture for the piece is available.

it just comes down to convenience. they already scan everything so why not take advantage of it. would I pay for the service, probably not unless the cost per month as trivial

Re: Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages

#30

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

dontbenebby wrote: post #28

toomuchtodo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could argue this all day. Let's not! I'm okay parting with some privacy and security for convenience to avoid losing paper mail, have it returned undeliverable, ease my management of receiving it, etc. It's not for everyone, but for my use cases, I desire it. Provide the service, and I'll be a customer for life. It only takes one lost paper bill or notice to make life painful for a bit.

As long as the service is opt in , I don't have an issue. My problem is eroding constitutional protections for people who don't want to trade liberty for convenience.

I would never propose it not be opt in.