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Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

latimes.com

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Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#21

Post by 2dollars27cents »

modeless wrote: post #9
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Uber/Lyft/taxis cars are fuel sipping Toyota Priuses. Fuel taxes break down as fuel economies reach a certain point. Yes, it is not just Uber drivers using Priuses, but it is a substantial problem that has increased road usage without the same corresponding increases in fuel tax revenues. Of course electric presents even bigger problems that many states now have a surcharge on them during registration. It is obv…

If efficient cars are a problem, tax efficient cars, not Uber. But given CA's environmental goals, this would be counterproductive.

As others have mentioned, taxing efficient cars doesn't seem to make much sense. Maybe tax actual miles traveled instead? That would solve the problem of increasing efficiency and also decrease the value of loitering and cruising in-between pick-ups.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#22

Post by sbarre »

clay_the_ripper wrote: post #10
nickles wrote: post #3

> Uber and Lyft “are using public roads, and the profit is going to their companies,” Phil Washington, Metro’s chief executive, said at a recent meeting. Public roads are supposed to be paid for through fuel taxes, which every Uber and Lyft driver pays. California has gasoline taxes of: * 55.22c per gallon (second only to Pennsylvania) * 18.4c per gallon (federal) * 2.25% sales tax Additionally, taxing only rideshari…

Agreed. This sounds like a tax that will generate money for the govt and nothing else - it’s not like suddenly people are going to stop going places when the price goes up a tiny amount since there are no viable alternatives to driving in LA, either rideshare or private car.

> since there are no viable alternatives to driving in LA, either rideshare or private car.

The article seems to imply otherwise, that tons of money has been spent on improving public transit.

Not agreeing with you or the article either way, just pointing that out.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#23

Post by seanmcdirmid »

2dollars27cents wrote: post #21
modeless wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If efficient cars are a problem, tax efficient cars, not Uber. But given CA's environmental goals, this would be counterproductive.

As others have mentioned, taxing efficient cars doesn't seem to make much sense. Maybe tax actual miles traveled instead? That would solve the problem of increasing efficiency and also decrease the value of loitering and cruising in-between pick-ups.

That is on the table in Europe with real-time tolling based on miles driven.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#24

Post by thegayngler »

nickles wrote: post #3

> Uber and Lyft “are using public roads, and the profit is going to their companies,” Phil Washington, Metro’s chief executive, said at a recent meeting. Public roads are supposed to be paid for through fuel taxes, which every Uber and Lyft driver pays. California has gasoline taxes of: * 55.22c per gallon (second only to Pennsylvania) * 18.4c per gallon (federal) * 2.25% sales tax Additionally, taxing only rideshari…

Something else to consider is that traffic was bad way before ride sharing companies started popping up. Secondly, additional taxes will ultimately end up being paid for by people who do not own a vehicle. A better way to help alleviate traffic conditions is to raise gas taxes across the board or maybe just using the tax dollars more efficiently to build public transportation like trains on top of the existing infrastructure that cars typically use. I don't know why California is wasting time on obviously bad legislation. Why do they feel the need to consider the crazy option?

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#25

Post by stefan_ »

nickles wrote: post #3

> Uber and Lyft “are using public roads, and the profit is going to their companies,” Phil Washington, Metro’s chief executive, said at a recent meeting. Public roads are supposed to be paid for through fuel taxes, which every Uber and Lyft driver pays. California has gasoline taxes of: * 55.22c per gallon (second only to Pennsylvania) * 18.4c per gallon (federal) * 2.25% sales tax Additionally, taxing only rideshari…

Fuel taxes do not come remotely close to funding the roads.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#26

Post by longerthoughts »

sbarre wrote: post #22
clay_the_ripper wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. This sounds like a tax that will generate money for the govt and nothing else - it’s not like suddenly people are going to stop going places when the price goes up a tiny amount since there are no viable alternatives to driving in LA, either rideshare or private car.

> since there are no viable alternatives to driving in LA, either rideshare or private car. The article seems to imply otherwise, that tons of money has been spent on improving public transit. Not agreeing with you or the article either way, just pointing that out.

Seems like the article is going out of its way to make public transit sound attractive with phrasing like "Metro’s sprawling bus network". Anecdotally, nobody I know in LA considers public transit as a realistic option and they routinely make jokes about how bad it is.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#27

Post by jvanderbot »

Comparing rideshare to public transit, this tells me there's clearly a need for easier, faster transit even with higher pricing.

Solution? Try to ruin it.

Instead, maybe we should embrace it and provide incentives for ridesharing vs driving alone? E.g. give uber a lane on the highway for 2+ passengers and tax only single rider transits. Give a few lyft ride coupons with every monthly bus pass. Provide benefits to using busses (which are a terrible experience) by occasional free lyft rides ...

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#28

Post by reading-at-work »

burlesona wrote: post #16
ars wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is to lower demand by raising the cost of driving - ie. significant congestion pricing (tolls) across the metro All that does is increase the cost of living. Either people need to drive or they don't. People don't drive just for the fun of it anymore. And if you succeed and do manage to reduce travel you also managed to reduce economic activity. If you goal is to get people to switch, then you have to do it on the…

Which is why I included the second part of my statement, which you did not quote: we would need to use the proceeds to dramatically increase the quality and quantity of alternatives to driving so that people had a realistic choice. I totally agree with you that people are driving mostly because they have to, not for fun. However, retrofitting car-oriented development to be viable for non-car users is exceptionally di…

> we would need to use the proceeds to dramatically increase the quality and quantity of alternatives to driving so that people had a realistic choice.

I agree, but public transit projects take years to complete, so in the interim you'd have very expensive driving and worse congestion than before (due to construction), which sounds like hell on earth. Would it be feasible to invest the costs up front and collect the payout later?

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#29

Post by shereadsthenews »

nickles wrote: post #3

> Uber and Lyft “are using public roads, and the profit is going to their companies,” Phil Washington, Metro’s chief executive, said at a recent meeting. Public roads are supposed to be paid for through fuel taxes, which every Uber and Lyft driver pays. California has gasoline taxes of: * 55.22c per gallon (second only to Pennsylvania) * 18.4c per gallon (federal) * 2.25% sales tax Additionally, taxing only rideshari…

Fuel tax revenue and other direct user fees like annual registration in California amount to less than 25% of what the state and its cities pay to maintain the roads and streets. Roads are massively subsidized from general revenues. If you are proposing a $5/gallon fuel tax then I completely agree. That would be about equivalent to what other rich countries tax motor fuel and consistent with the state's greenhouse gas emission goals.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#30

Post by dragonwriter »

modeless wrote: post #9
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Uber/Lyft/taxis cars are fuel sipping Toyota Priuses. Fuel taxes break down as fuel economies reach a certain point. Yes, it is not just Uber drivers using Priuses, but it is a substantial problem that has increased road usage without the same corresponding increases in fuel tax revenues. Of course electric presents even bigger problems that many states now have a surcharge on them during registration. It is obv…

If efficient cars are a problem, tax efficient cars, not Uber. But given CA's environmental goals, this would be counterproductive.

> If efficient cars are a problem, tax efficient cars

California already does that. (ZEVs pay a supplemental $100 annual fee.)

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