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24 years of Delphi and Delphi 10.3.1 is out Today

blog.marcocantu.com

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Re: 24 years of Delphi and Delphi 10.3.1 is out Today

#21

Post by agumonkey »

hnzix wrote: post #20
agumonkey wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a weird feeling these days, that improvements didn't happen at the right place and that old GUI paradigms were just right and that if you knew how to leverage what a computer can do (mind you you could do sml and prolog back in the days) you wouldn't much fancier presentation..

> old GUI paradigms were just right It's a permutation of "worse is better". Skeuomorphism and hierarchical organization cargo-culted as evil, ignoring that our traditional built environments work using these paradigms. User-hostile design. Let's replace all buttons and text labels with arbitrary flat abstract icons! See also: nosql and SPAs.

I'm not sure I parse your comment well. I think I've seen enough UI/GUI/UX paradigm to know when something is near the sweet spot. It seems you agree ?

The flat trend was a reaction to abusive skeymorphism; arguing that visual information should be reduced to a minimum.. but somehow ~serious interaction requires a little bit more than layout and font to be enjoyable.

Re: 24 years of Delphi and Delphi 10.3.1 is out Today

#22

Post by 4thaccount »

teilo wrote: post #8
systems wrote: post #6

Embarcadero tools and ides, are super expensive considering that most developer tools are either free (visual studio developer is free for individuals), or way cheaper (jetbrains) I really dont know who their target customer is, but then again, when I look around, I find tools like windev (PC-Soft) and Clarion (softvelocity) have a loyal following Except of course that embarcadero, is way more expensive Free-pascal i…

Looking at their price / feature matrix, they are running this platform like it's still 1999. The cheapest option is outrageous, and has no client/server DB support. So that means spending at least $3,600 (on sale!) for a usable development platform. Batshit crazy.

It is expensive, but you're being overly critical I think. There are a lot of paid tools in the $1500 - $5000 range just for a single user and some cost even more for deployment. If it had cost $10k I would call it insane, but $3,600 isn't too crazy.

Re: 24 years of Delphi and Delphi 10.3.1 is out Today

#23

Post by emmanueloga_ »

systems wrote: post #6

Embarcadero tools and ides, are super expensive considering that most developer tools are either free (visual studio developer is free for individuals), or way cheaper (jetbrains) I really dont know who their target customer is, but then again, when I look around, I find tools like windev (PC-Soft) and Clarion (softvelocity) have a loyal following Except of course that embarcadero, is way more expensive Free-pascal i…

Here's another intriguing compiler suite I came across in the past [1].

For both elements, embarcadero and freepascal the promise of easy cross compilation is the most attractive feature in my eyes.

I started programming in Turbo Pascal 20 years ago or so, but I don't know... coming back to the language these days doesn't sound like the most efficient use of my time.

1: https://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/oxygene/

Re: 24 years of Delphi and Delphi 10.3.1 is out Today

#24

Post by cm2187 »

hnzix wrote: post #20
agumonkey wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a weird feeling these days, that improvements didn't happen at the right place and that old GUI paradigms were just right and that if you knew how to leverage what a computer can do (mind you you could do sml and prolog back in the days) you wouldn't much fancier presentation..

> old GUI paradigms were just right It's a permutation of "worse is better". Skeuomorphism and hierarchical organization cargo-culted as evil, ignoring that our traditional built environments work using these paradigms. User-hostile design. Let's replace all buttons and text labels with arbitrary flat abstract icons! See also: nosql and SPAs.

Well, Microsoft is a good illustration. They imposed a ribbon on all customer UIs, except of course the one software that their developers actually use (Visual Studio).

Re: 24 years of Delphi and Delphi 10.3.1 is out Today

#26

Post by userbinator »

dfox wrote: post #5

The article mentions that the binary size of the listbox example is significantly different. Well, we used to say that Delphi 1 is totally wasteful as the default empty project compiled into 39kB .exe, obviously full of bloat ;) Edit: 39kB was nothing even in the 1995. But there was other more significant issue: if you went for all the database and line of bussines suport libraries you ended up with application that…

140KB+ for that simple app even in 1995 would've been an insane level of bloat, considering that the Windows 3.1 Program Manager (PROGMAN.EXE) also shown in the screenshots is only 112KB, and it certainly has much more functionality. The File Manager, WINFILE.EXE, is 167KB. As an experienced native Win32 programmer, the same thing in pure Win32 would be What's even more disturbing is the fact that an app which does the same thing in 2019, using a newer version of the programming environment, now takes nearly 6MB or 30MB, depending on which field of the newer versions' dialog you're looking at ("code size" or "file size").

My first experience with a Delphi application was similarly disappointing: I distinctly remember a 300KB binary whose only function was drawing a few lines on the screen (to act as a ruler), and disassembling it in an attempt to figure out why.

Re: 24 years of Delphi and Delphi 10.3.1 is out Today

#27

Post by moron4hire »

acqq wrote: post #16
dfox wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few years ago they obviously realized this and created free of charge "community" edition (IIRC it is licensed in the "it's free unless you make more than X with this" way, like Unreal Engine). The target customers for the paid editions obviously are developers of custom line of bussines applications. And in that case the license cost is somewhat justified, as the IDE and it's libraries are essentially directly usabl…

https://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi/starter "If you're a small company or organization without revenue (or up to $5,000 per year in revenue), you can also use the Delphi Community Edition. Once your company's total revenue reaches US $5,000, or your team expands to more than 5 developers, you can move up to an unrestricted commercial license with Professional edition."

$5,000/yr revenue is not a lot. I made more than that my first year freelancing in highschool. All I did was write HTML (in Notepad).

Re: 24 years of Delphi and Delphi 10.3.1 is out Today

#29

Post by userbinator »

protomyth wrote: post #2

Got to say, other than the font being much nicer now, some of those old screens look a whole lot better and easier to navigate. I miss buttons that look like buttons.

Comparing the sizes of the apps made with the two different versions, and the environments they ran under, is most revealing: the old one has a more complex and 3D UI, yet uses a fraction of the resources of the new one that looks bland and lifeless. What's more difficult to draw, a 3D button with an integrated icon or a flat one that just has a single piece of text?

Whatever it is, this is not progress.

Re: 24 years of Delphi and Delphi 10.3.1 is out Today

#30

Post by nolok »

userbinator wrote: post #26
dfox wrote: post #5

The article mentions that the binary size of the listbox example is significantly different. Well, we used to say that Delphi 1 is totally wasteful as the default empty project compiled into 39kB .exe, obviously full of bloat ;) Edit: 39kB was nothing even in the 1995. But there was other more significant issue: if you went for all the database and line of bussines suport libraries you ended up with application that…

140KB+ for that simple app even in 1995 would've been an insane level of bloat, considering that the Windows 3.1 Program Manager (PROGMAN.EXE) also shown in the screenshots is only 112KB, and it certainly has much more functionality. The File Manager, WINFILE.EXE, is 167KB. As an experienced native Win32 programmer, the same thing in pure Win32 would be What's even more disturbing is the fact that an app which does t…

You don't need to disassemble it, just check the box so that the VCL libraries are loaded dynamically rather than statically linked in the binaries and you get your answer.

There is a reason your app starts at 30 MB and then after you add dozens of forms, database calls, ..., it's still at pretty much the same size, it's the VCL (Delphi's library).

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