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Whitespace killed an enterprise app

uxdesign.cc

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Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#21
post #16

Am I the only one like dense information? There is judicious use of whitespace (Swiss layout, Brockmann et. al) and then there is the whole material UX enchilada. I prefer Foobar2000 over Apple Music. Give me dense, logical and flat layout over 50 page long hierarchical layout full of whitespace. Whitespace is tiring when used extensively.

It really depends on the use case, but yeah dense can be fine. But imagine staring at Foobar2000 all day as if it is your primary work. You probabbly are looking for just some of the data most of the time and filtering the rest... so in that case maybe less would be better. On the other hand if you glance at it and want lots of data without clicks, then dense is great. But your point about "logical" is the key for de…

Have you heard of Bloomberg Terminal? Thousands of people stare at BT all day long full of dense information. You can attest to its success by the fact that it is the defacto standard in financial analysis.

Bloomberg could make it "modern" full of whitespace but they deliberately don't. Dense contextual information in my view is better than whitespace decorated vomit that we see in today's UX/UI trends.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#22
>a well-intentioned UX Designer at a large high-tech company who was given a new project: Redesign an internal control panel that was ugly [...] It lasted one month before the company was forced to retire it. Users absolutely hated the new system. Sure, the old system was ugly, but it had everything they needed, right at their fingertips! Their jobs were incredibly fast paced—they worked in a tech support call center and were rated on productivity metrics. They didn’t have time to click or scroll to find information while the clock was literally ticking.

This same exact story of a UI disaster happened at a Fortune 100 company I was at in 2005. They had a legacy app (think DOS character mode talking to a mainframe) for entering accounting documents.

To replace it, a high-priced consulting firm installed a "web portal" technology. (Unifying a company's various enterprise applications behind a single web portal was a hot endeavor back then.)

When it was rolled out, the accounting department fell behind on their work. Nobody noticed that the constant UI banner at the top of the of the web portal browser window was forcing users to always use the mouse to scroll up and down to look at information. In the old DOS system, they could just enter info from invoices quickly without even looking at the screen. But the new system broke the users' fluid familiarity.

The UI disaster was so bad that the consulting company had to have their consultants come in on Saturday to help the client's workers catch up on all their data entry. Imagine an army of $150k consultants doing the work of $10/hour clerks because the web portal's UI was never really field-tested with a real-world workload! If just one UI web developer actually shadowed one of their users for a day, they would have noticed the usability problem.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#23
post #9

It seems a lot of UIs these days are designed for beginners instead of people who know what they are doing. Someone’s this is OK but in a professional conetwxt it often isn’t. I can’t even imagine if IDEs like Visual Studio were designed “spacious” and “minimalistic”. It would look cute but you wouldn’t get anything done. Some things are just complex and there is no way to design that away without hurting productivit…

You can do it, but it requires tons and tons of effort. And even after all that, you can't escape the backlash.

There's a great series by Jensen Harris, Office Program Manager, about how they designed the Ribbon: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/jensenh/2005/09/26/the-why-... (you can find the rest in his blog archives, unfortunately the images are gone)

It was an incredibly complex undertaking, Microsoft did many studies, had focus groups and the whole thing (Office after all, is a major business to them, worth billions of dollars).

The end result was demonstrably better for the vast majority of users (Microsoft had hard numbers to back their design decisions).

And yet if you read many of the comments on tech forums you'd think Microsoft killed the users' puppies.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#25
A great example of a really nice information dense app is the Bloomberg terminal. Maybe it’s ugly (a lot of people say this, but I personally don’t think so), but all the right design choices have been made. High Contrast, monospaced fonts, extensive keybindings, absolutely no wasted space. And, most essential, it’s not a web app.

I used to work at a portfolio analytics company who’s explicit goal was: to have all of Wall St use Bloomberg on one screen, and our product on the other.

Our app was probably the anti-thesis to the Bloomberg Terminal in almost everyway: “modern” design, tons of white space, a web app, making you have to log in every 30 minutes for “security”, no keybindings.

I’m sure most of HN have never used the terminal, but let me give an analogy. The Bloomberg Terminal is like using Emacs or Vim, they make you feel powerful, they make you feel like a wizard.

Our app was like google docs, you never felt like you were in direct control of it. You never felt like it was an extension of yourself. Unsurprisingly, even though our app was incredibly useful and provided portfolio analytics that you could only get from excel (our biggest competitor), it, and the company, was largely a failure. Instead of being worth billions, we were capped at a valuation of 200m for over 5 years.

I believe completely that the company’s failure was due to our “modern” white space heavy app.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#26
post #23
post #9

It seems a lot of UIs these days are designed for beginners instead of people who know what they are doing. Someone’s this is OK but in a professional conetwxt it often isn’t. I can’t even imagine if IDEs like Visual Studio were designed “spacious” and “minimalistic”. It would look cute but you wouldn’t get anything done. Some things are just complex and there is no way to design that away without hurting productivit…

You can do it, but it requires tons and tons of effort. And even after all that, you can't escape the backlash. There's a great series by Jensen Harris, Office Program Manager, about how they designed the Ribbon: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/jensenh/2005/09/26/the-why-... (you can find the rest in his blog archives, unfortunately the images are gone) It was an incredibly complex undertaking, Microsoft did many st…

I don’t know how they come up with the numbers but I still think that menus and toolbars were much more discoverable and faster to use than the ribbon :)

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#27
post #8

One point: >Are there things my users really don’t need to see right now? If you don’t know, ask! ASK! ASK! ASK! For the love of god please ask your users. I worked for a company with a big clunky enterprise app. It got redesigned numerous times and rolled out with big fanfare. Nobody who used for any significant amount of time was involved in any of the redesigns. It was horrible every time with numerous changes jus…

> ASK! ASK! ASK!

Except users lie all the time. They don't know what they need or want. People are horrible at being logical about what will actually help them.

Watch them work. Watch a bunch of people work. Test and prototype changes and watch more people work. And watch them work at their desk or where ever they work.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#28
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on the use case, but yeah dense can be fine. But imagine staring at Foobar2000 all day as if it is your primary work. You probabbly are looking for just some of the data most of the time and filtering the rest... so in that case maybe less would be better. On the other hand if you glance at it and want lots of data without clicks, then dense is great. But your point about "logical" is the key for de…

Have you heard of Bloomberg Terminal? Thousands of people stare at BT all day long full of dense information. You can attest to its success by the fact that it is the defacto standard in financial analysis. Bloomberg could make it "modern" full of whitespace but they deliberately don't. Dense contextual information in my view is better than whitespace decorated vomit that we see in today's UX/UI trends.

I'll go back to saying it depends on use case.

The folks staring at Bloomberg Terminal want all that data.

If it was a website and I just wanted to get one chunk of data, change one setting, might be a pain.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#29
>Use color deliberately.

And think of the color blind. Especially dark red shouldn't be the only way this information is highlighted. 8% of men are the kind of red-green colorblind, where dark red and black is not easily distinguishable.

If 8% of men don't see your error notifications, maybe that shouldn't be the only kind of highlighting (or choose a color that is less likely to affect so many people, like orange).

>Let users export data, instead

And maybe even import. I have a lot of administrative tasks I could script easily, if I had more direct access. But writing a python script using a headless browser, which breaks every time they update, doesn't sound as attractive.

And a point they kind of forgot: Make it perform well. There are so many enterprise apps where you need to click a lot and wait so much time in between you start doing something else, which reduces your flow.

A second point: Give people keyboard shortcuts, and make them apparent through tooltips. Your power users will highly appreciate if they can do things more quickly with the right shortcuts.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#30
post #13

Please change the clickbait title. The app didn't die, they just had to revert the design change. That aside, the Freshbooks redesign last year pushed me to switch to QuickBooks for exactly this reason. The new design had the stereotypical "modern app" design, but every common task required 5x more time than before. For example, just to change the category of an expense you have to 1) click on the expense, wait for t…

They re-added the accountant feature recently. I imagine they received major pushback on that change.
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