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A stunning year in climate science

climateprogress.org

21–30 of 40 posts

Re: A stunning year in climate science

#21
post #20
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing wrong with the science, I just find this specific presentation of them extreme and off putting. Particularly the use of words like "catastrophe" and "gravest threat" etc. The aim of the post is quite openly to show this as a clear and present danger and create a climate [sic] of fear, despite claims to the contrary. I may have been a little glib with the original response; but I do not think that thi…

Please define 'catastrophe' and/or point to the real 'gravest threat'.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are asking.

Re: A stunning year in climate science

#22
post #11
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Hysterical website brought to you by Center for American Progress. From their website Our mission is to transform progressive ideas into policy through rapid response communications, legislative action, grassroots organizing and advocacy, and partnerships with other progressive leaders throughout the country and the world. addendum: for those confused, this is political advocacy and its probably not a good idea to po…

Given that most of the article is made of highlights from 10 scientific articles published in such high profile reviews as Nature, Science, or Nature Geoscience, I do not think you can reduce it to "political advocacy" from a "hysterical website".

Ignoring the 'hysterical' epitaph for a moment, it is fair to note that the website is openly a political website.

Selecting high quality scientific articles to bolster my political argument doesn't stop my aim being political - it may just mean that I have a convincing argument!

It is fair to be wary, however, of the process of selection in situations like this - these were 10 articles selected from many. Why were they chosen? Was the process of choosing neutral (such as in an independent literature survey) or political in nature?

This is where the nature of the site may give reason to look more closely, especially where they top and tail the actual science with partisan name calling, such as the reference to people concerned with the transparency and reliability of the climate science processes (ie 'Climategate') as the "anti-science crowd".

Re: A stunning year in climate science

#23
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post #2

Hysterical website brought to you by Center for American Progress. From their website Our mission is to transform progressive ideas into policy through rapid response communications, legislative action, grassroots organizing and advocacy, and partnerships with other progressive leaders throughout the country and the world. addendum: for those confused, this is political advocacy and its probably not a good idea to po…

You're using a straight Ad Hominem, or as pg calls it a DH1.

Ad Hominem by association you mean? I'm not "attacking" the website because of its associations, just pointing out its associations are very very partisan and therefore the site probably shouldn't be posted here.

Re: A stunning year in climate science

#24
post #12
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are links to respected science journals "hysterical, scare mongering, idiocy"?

There is nothing wrong with the science, I just find this specific presentation of them extreme and off putting. Particularly the use of words like "catastrophe" and "gravest threat" etc. The aim of the post is quite openly to show this as a clear and present danger and create a climate [sic] of fear, despite claims to the contrary. I may have been a little glib with the original response; but I do not think that thi…

If there is indeed nothing wrong with the science, then there is a "clear and present danger" of a "catastrophe". In which case, what's wrong with saying so? (Shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre is a sensible thing to do if the theatre actually is on fire. Though in that particular case there might be safer ways to begin.)

Re: A stunning year in climate science

#25
post #24
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing wrong with the science, I just find this specific presentation of them extreme and off putting. Particularly the use of words like "catastrophe" and "gravest threat" etc. The aim of the post is quite openly to show this as a clear and present danger and create a climate [sic] of fear, despite claims to the contrary. I may have been a little glib with the original response; but I do not think that thi…

If there is indeed nothing wrong with the science, then there is a "clear and present danger" of a "catastrophe". In which case, what's wrong with saying so? (Shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre is a sensible thing to do if the theatre actually is on fire . Though in that particular case there might be safer ways to begin.)

That's actually a non sequitur; there is nothing wrong with the science, but there is no need to define it as a catastrophe. There is plenty of time to have a meaningful discussion without yelling words like that :) There is this theory, I fear, that it tries to imply the gravity of the situation... all of which is pointless.

Encouraging people to run round like headless chickens is counter-productive to the stated aims.

To extend your theatre analogy. Shouting "fire" in a theatre during the first half when it looks relatively likely a fire will start in the second half is definitely counter-productive. :)

My point is; this is entirely the wrong, unethical, political and hysterical way to present important science and raise the issues. Do it right, or not at all IMO.

Re: A stunning year in climate science

#26
post #14

Sure maybe this like many other sources sensationalizes things but one of the problems with climate is that I just can't see worldwide action until either it is right in governments faces ie. to late, or they are drawn in my sensationalist tones on correct science. Climate is one of those things that governments will be able to wash there hands of if everything turns bad, because no one can be 100% sure of causes and…

Ah... a pet topic of mine.

This starts at home; and always will do if we want to make a difference.

Reduce your energy usage, buy local produce, install solar (and other sustainable) power. All of these changes can be done for very little additional cost. And if you really care it is the approach to take.

With enough of us doing these things it increases pressure and awareness a lot more than blogging about it etc.

While the final fix rests with the governments, we have to do our bit. Just, we're going to have to do it first.

At the moment "Green" is big business; but it is not so much actual green, as "brand Green". With enough consumers going after more eco-efficient lifestyles it increases the real green market and therefore pressure at a national level.

If everyone in the country went and installed solar panels tomorrow....

Re: A stunning year in climate science

#27
post #4

I wasn't expecting much from this article but it links to recent research in high impact journals. The ones that caught my eye were: Science : Vast East Siberian Arctic Shelf methane stores destabilizing and venting Nature Geoscience study : Oceans are acidifying 10 times faster today than 55 million years ago when a mass extinction of marine species occurred Royal Society : “There are very strong indications that th…

As a disclaimer, I should first say that I haven't read any of these papers in detail and that I therefore can't comment on their validity. I also don't wish to take a pro- or anti-environmentalist stance. I'm strictly neutral. I'm just talking about the nature of research publications.

Many of us in acadaemia are aware of a perceived phenomenon whereby "fashionable" (for want of a better word) topics get published and/or attract research. From a cynical (yet often accurate) perspective, researchers have become adept at framing their research proposals in the context of the topic du jour. I'm not saying the research is bad, just that funding is easier if you mention buzzwords.

My point is that acadaemia goes through cycles of particular interest in certain topics. The funding gets allocated to it and the journals are more likely to publish research relevant to the "fashionable" topic than other research. Now, I'm not saying the research is flawed; just that if you fund research into environmental change, you're probably going to find a lot of environmental change. If tomorrow you decide to massively fund research into extraterrestrial life, you will see a surge of papers in high-impact journals about that very subject. The environmental change hasn't gone away, it's just that fewer people are trying to publish data about it.

Perhaps for that reason we shouldn't be impressed by the sheer volume of research or the perceived quality of the publishing journals. We shouldn't panic because the number of papers on the subject has increased by several orders of magnitude in recent years. We should get a clear picture of what is going on, ignoring the funding bias, and once we have analysed the data from a balanced perspective and we see that it spells certain doom for all of us, then we can panic. ;)

Re: A stunning year in climate science

#28
post #23
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're using a straight Ad Hominem, or as pg calls it a DH1.

Ad Hominem by association you mean? I'm not "attacking" the website because of its associations, just pointing out its associations are very very partisan and therefore the site probably shouldn't be posted here.

I agree, I don't find politics-and-science to be good bunk-buddies. They selected 10 out of a huge list, all good articles but are they a true representation of the progress in climate science or are they the top-10 list for Climategate potentials from biased over-estimated distortions of evidence.

All the climategate research, at least what I could tell, pointed to global warming. Just not as much as the authors wanted though.

Re: A stunning year in climate science

#29
> The last year or so has seen more scientific papers and presentations that raise the genuine prospect of catastrophe (if we stay on our current emissions path) that I can recall seeing in any other year.

Missed a great opportunity for a hockey-stick graph! :)

Re: A stunning year in climate science

#30
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Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please define 'catastrophe' and/or point to the real 'gravest threat'.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are asking.

Given that there is nothing wrong with the science and the fact that mankind can't even manage to stop the smaller-scale climate change that we thought we'd have to face, I fail to see how something like thawing permafrost - which will make the problem much worse, much quicker - can possibly be described as something other than a catastrophe.

Does catastrophe mean something else to you, or are you suggesting it'll all work out before we get to a catastrophe?

(The next questions, as I'm sure you'll be able to guess, are what you think will happen to save us from ourselves, and when we can expect it).

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