Pufferfish in China bred poison-free • Hacker News Board

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#21

Post by moate » Thu, Feb 07, 2019, 6:03 PM UTC

darkpuma wrote: post #16

gamblor956 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So something is dangerous and people are going to do it anyway so they legalize it and try to make it safer instead of criminalizing it. The US could learn from China on this one. Pufferfish has been legal in the US for decades at least, there is a classic Simpons episode in which Homer consumes one. If you meant to comment on drug policy: many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but beca…

Alcohol also has the self-limiting property of consumption being marginally reversible. I can throw up a stomach full of vodka, but I can't throw up a vein full of heroin. Certainly alcohol poisoning deaths still occur, but far fewer of them occur than if throwing up weren't possible. Even so, I think more regulation, not less, of the alcohol industry is a good idea. Hitting the alcohol industry with advertising bans…

Alcohol is also a true physical addiction. You might want to die from heroin withdrawal, but it won't kill you if you quit cold turkey. The same cannot be said of high level alcoholism.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#22

Post by emsy » Thu, Feb 07, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #15

throwaway2016a wrote: post #4

I find this part interesting: > Wang says: “Chinese [people] have risked death to eat pufferfish for a long time. The government couldn’t inspect every household to implement the pufferfish ban. So it opened up the industry by legalising it.” > Duan says that, thanks to the legalisation, and to the number of fisheries experts graduating from the Ocean University of China and Dalian Ocean University, “pufferfish dinin…

So something is dangerous and people are going to do it anyway so they legalize it and try to make it safer instead of criminalizing it. The US could learn from China on this one. Pufferfish has been legal in the US for decades at least, there is a classic Simpons episode in which Homer consumes one. If you meant to comment on drug policy: many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but beca…

You reply on a post arguing that control can increase safety by saying illegal drugs are unsafe because they are uncontrolled. Putting your circular reasoning aside, there are so many illegal drugs that are safer for the user and the population than alcohol. It shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#23

Post by empath75 » Thu, Feb 07, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

darkpuma wrote: post #16

gamblor956 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So something is dangerous and people are going to do it anyway so they legalize it and try to make it safer instead of criminalizing it. The US could learn from China on this one. Pufferfish has been legal in the US for decades at least, there is a classic Simpons episode in which Homer consumes one. If you meant to comment on drug policy: many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but beca…

Alcohol also has the self-limiting property of consumption being marginally reversible. I can throw up a stomach full of vodka, but I can't throw up a vein full of heroin. Certainly alcohol poisoning deaths still occur, but far fewer of them occur than if throwing up weren't possible. Even so, I think more regulation, not less, of the alcohol industry is a good idea. Hitting the alcohol industry with advertising bans…

Alcohol slowly destroys your liver even without poisoning.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#24

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 07, 2019, 6:24 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #15

throwaway2016a wrote: post #4

I find this part interesting: > Wang says: “Chinese [people] have risked death to eat pufferfish for a long time. The government couldn’t inspect every household to implement the pufferfish ban. So it opened up the industry by legalising it.” > Duan says that, thanks to the legalisation, and to the number of fisheries experts graduating from the Ocean University of China and Dalian Ocean University, “pufferfish dinin…

So something is dangerous and people are going to do it anyway so they legalize it and try to make it safer instead of criminalizing it. The US could learn from China on this one. Pufferfish has been legal in the US for decades at least, there is a classic Simpons episode in which Homer consumes one. If you meant to comment on drug policy: many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but beca…

[deleted]

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#25

Post by mrob » Thu, Feb 07, 2019, 6:25 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #15

throwaway2016a wrote: post #4

I find this part interesting: > Wang says: “Chinese [people] have risked death to eat pufferfish for a long time. The government couldn’t inspect every household to implement the pufferfish ban. So it opened up the industry by legalising it.” > Duan says that, thanks to the legalisation, and to the number of fisheries experts graduating from the Ocean University of China and Dalian Ocean University, “pufferfish dinin…

So something is dangerous and people are going to do it anyway so they legalize it and try to make it safer instead of criminalizing it. The US could learn from China on this one. Pufferfish has been legal in the US for decades at least, there is a classic Simpons episode in which Homer consumes one. If you meant to comment on drug policy: many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but beca…

Alcohol is an unusual case because it's so much easier to make than any other drug. You can even make it by accident, e.g. by leaving fruit juice out uncovered. When prisoners sometimes make "prison wine" without getting caught, you have little hope of enforcing a ban in the general population.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#26

Post by darkpuma » Thu, Feb 07, 2019, 6:28 PM UTC

moate wrote: post #21

darkpuma wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol also has the self-limiting property of consumption being marginally reversible. I can throw up a stomach full of vodka, but I can't throw up a vein full of heroin. Certainly alcohol poisoning deaths still occur, but far fewer of them occur than if throwing up weren't possible. Even so, I think more regulation, not less, of the alcohol industry is a good idea. Hitting the alcohol industry with advertising bans…

Alcohol is also a true physical addiction. You might want to die from heroin withdrawal, but it won't kill you if you quit cold turkey. The same cannot be said of high level alcoholism.

Yes, that's right. DT can kill, a property alcohol addiction shares only with benzos to my knowledge.

There is something to be said however about the relative addictiveness of alcohol and opiods. Most consumers of alcohol don't experience any negative symptoms at all when they go weeks without drinking, because most people who drink alcohol do it with insufficient intensity and frequency to develop an addiction. Most people never experience the side effects of cannabis withdrawal for the same reason (which are physiologically terrifying but not physically dangerous.)

I know some people claim to be casual consumers of heroin. But I also know from personal experience that opiod addicts are liars. I've known one person killed by alcohol (a drunk driver, not DT) but three who were proscribed pain killers (two for workplace injuries, the other because his morbid obesity was causing back pain...) Before they wound up dead, each of these people turned into lying manipulators seeking more and more drug as their tolerance grew.

The medical industry needs a lot more regulation. A fat person never should have been prescribed opium derivatives to treat pain caused by the strain his obesity was putting on his skeleton. That man got himself into medical trouble in the first place by having very poor self control, and instead of treating that psychological deficiency or treating his weight gain, the doctor gives him powerful addictive pain killers to mask the pain? That doctor belongs in prison. I know three people who took doctor prescribed doses for no more than a few weeks and got hooked and eventually killed. The alcohol industry is bad, but it's not that bad. The pharma/medical industry is getting away with murder and few are critical of it.

EDIT:

> "The alcohol industry is bad, but it's not that bad."

I regret that phrasing. I believe on an individual level that opiods are more addictive than alcohol, but the alcohol and tobacco industries are scum on par with the painkiller industry and I would love to see them punished with very harsh regulation. Banning alcohol from television/radio/billboards would be a great start. I believe some countries also restrict tobacco to plain packaging, white cartons with black lettering. I'd like to see that brought to America and applied to the alcohol industry as well.

The corporate lobbying against such regulation would be intense, but I think it would be worth the fight.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#27

Post by darkpuma » Thu, Feb 07, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #23

darkpuma wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol also has the self-limiting property of consumption being marginally reversible. I can throw up a stomach full of vodka, but I can't throw up a vein full of heroin. Certainly alcohol poisoning deaths still occur, but far fewer of them occur than if throwing up weren't possible. Even so, I think more regulation, not less, of the alcohol industry is a good idea. Hitting the alcohol industry with advertising bans…

Alcohol slowly destroys your liver even without poisoning.

Harsher regulation of alcohol advertising would address this problem as well. Alcohol advertisements normalize the over-consumption of alcohol and the habitual consumption of alcohol, both of which are hazardous.

The reason I mentioned alcohol poisoning and not long term organ damage is because I consider that to be a less severe issue even if the bodycount is higher. Elderly people living to be slightly less elderly than they otherwise would concerns me a lot less than people dying young. A teenager dying from alcohol poisoning (or a DUI) is a greater tragedy than a grandpa dying at 70 from pickling his liver (rather living a few more years to be killed by all the fried food he eats for breakfast every morning.)

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#28

Post by sparkie » Thu, Feb 07, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

ginko wrote: post #2

It was always my understanding that the appeal of well-prepared pufferfish was that it would still contain minute amounts of toxin to create a prickly/numbing feeling in the mouth.

The toxin is in tiny concentrations of the fish's muscle which is normally eaten. The parts that can't be eaten are mainly the liver and ovaries, where the toxin is most concentrated.

Interestingly, there are traditional fermentation processes by which the toxin level in the liver and ovaries can be reduced to similar levels to the normal edible parts over a couple of years, which have managed to survive despite prohibition of fugu in Japan during the Edo period.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#29

Post by moate » Thu, Feb 07, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

darkpuma wrote: post #26

moate wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol is also a true physical addiction. You might want to die from heroin withdrawal, but it won't kill you if you quit cold turkey. The same cannot be said of high level alcoholism.

Yes, that's right. DT can kill, a property alcohol addiction shares only with benzos to my knowledge. There is something to be said however about the relative addictiveness of alcohol and opiods. Most consumers of alcohol don't experience any negative symptoms at all when they go weeks without drinking, because most people who drink alcohol do it with insufficient intensity and frequency to develop an addiction. Most…

>>The pharma/medical industry is getting away with murder and few are critical of it.

I think many people are critical of it. The president is even putting out initiatives to combat it. I agree that it should have happened sooner, and the response should probably be more severe, but it does seem like the culture of "you broke your toe, he's some oxy" is starting to fade.

As for the alcohol industry being "not that bad"...eh, maybe? I think there's a lot less stigma around alcohol abuse because of how much normal, healthy consumption is a part of many cultures. There's a lot of problems with the alcohol industry and it's toll on society, and I would say it seems that US culture's lax attitude towards that is more troubling.

I don't understand why alcohol and prescription drugs can be advertised on TV while cigarettes are banned. I'm pretty strongly in the "do whatever you want, but we don't need to advertise vice" category. Advertising the products equates to direct cultural approval of these things which helps encourage abuse. I'm not saying take away the drugs and booze and smokes, just don't let them put ads everywhere if you feel they're a societal problem.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#30

Post by simlevesque » Thu, Feb 07, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

ASalazarMX wrote: post #11

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've eaten plenty of things in China (have you?) and I'm still alive.

"For the good of all of us, except the ones who are dead".

I bet that China has more people alive than your country.