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Reeling from algorithm glitch, Instacart institutes $3 minimum fee for drivers

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Re: Reeling from algorithm glitch, Instacart institutes $3 minimum fee for drivers

#21

Post by RHSeeger »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #17
olliej wrote: post #4

“Glitch” US Labor law doesn’t allow tip theft, and changing pay rate dependent on tip value is clearly tip theft.

Someone who has worked in a service job can answer this better but I'm not sure that is true. My understanding is that restaurants routinely pay less than minimum wage and then up your wage to minimum if your tips don't come up to at least minimum wage. I'm not sure how this is any deferent. Though doing it without the person being paid even knowing is abhorrent.

Restaurants (and some other places) are allowed to pay less than minimum wage by law (thought they are required to covert the gap if the tips aren't enough to bring the user up to minimum wage; I've never seen it happen). If you're not part of the group allowed to do this, you don't get to.

Re: Reeling from algorithm glitch, Instacart institutes $3 minimum fee for drivers

#22

Post by paulie_a »

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #6
talltimtom wrote: post #2

So.... they aren’t going to stop steeling tips, just limit how much they steal? And they are claiming that it was an algorithmic glitch that cause them to steal a drivers tip that one time... yet they aren’t going to stop it all together just limit it. They need to come out and say “all tips goes to the driver” or they are going to dies in distrust. No-one wants to buy from or work for a company that downright steals…

It's too late for me, I don't tolerate this sort of bullshit. I had pizza delivered once and paid/tipped online (I have ten years in restaurants behind me, on the rare occasion I eat out I tip really well) and the delivery guy gave me a funny look when he dropped off my order. I took a look at the receipt attached to the order and the price I paid was higher plus the tip was not on the slip, I sent him a text with my…

That's why I just keep twenty in singles in my wallet, I never pay cash for things but can just hit zero on the app and give the tip in person.

Re: Reeling from algorithm glitch, Instacart institutes $3 minimum fee for drivers

#23

Post by towelr34dy »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #13
dahdum wrote: post #10

How on earth was this an "algorithm glitch" or anything close to "black box"? It's how they calculated pay, by setting a minimum hourly rate and subtracting any tips from that before paying out themselves. This reporter is far too trusting. > Instacart still hasn’t explained exactly what went wrong in calculating Arrigo’s 80-cent fee. But it shows the risks inherent in relying entirely on the “black box” of algorithm…

I think they mean black box to the person paying and the one being paid not to Instacart. Though this is kind of frustrating. Because 99%+ Instacart themselves knew what the formula is. I give a 1% change they legitimately did the math wrong and somehow got it through QA and code review into production and a 99% chance they are being intentionally deceptive by calling it an "algorithm glitch".

I'm guessing they probably didn't have any instances where they didn't pay themselves by 'accident'.

Re: Reeling from algorithm glitch, Instacart institutes $3 minimum fee for drivers

#24

Post by fwip »

olliej wrote: post #4

“Glitch” US Labor law doesn’t allow tip theft, and changing pay rate dependent on tip value is clearly tip theft.

I think the loophole that Instacart is hoping to squeeze through is the difference between employees and "independent contractors."

Re: Reeling from algorithm glitch, Instacart institutes $3 minimum fee for drivers

#25

Post by bb88 »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #16
bb88 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the developers are just stupid. Now they simply can add a simple if-statement. if driver_pay No need to bother with unit tests on that one. [Edit:] LOL as seen below. That's probably how they coded it.

I thought you did that intentionally to be sarcastic / ironic...

No... I had a long day of coding.

My IDE would have caught it, and pointed it out as a null statement.

Re: Reeling from algorithm glitch, Instacart institutes $3 minimum fee for drivers

#26

Post by mikeryan »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #17
olliej wrote: post #4

“Glitch” US Labor law doesn’t allow tip theft, and changing pay rate dependent on tip value is clearly tip theft.

Someone who has worked in a service job can answer this better but I'm not sure that is true. My understanding is that restaurants routinely pay less than minimum wage and then up your wage to minimum if your tips don't come up to at least minimum wage. I'm not sure how this is any deferent. Though doing it without the person being paid even knowing is abhorrent.

This is an explicit carve out for restaurants in certain states. Wouldn’t apply to Instacart and you can never take tips away.

Re: Reeling from algorithm glitch, Instacart institutes $3 minimum fee for drivers

#28

Post by simplecomplex »

Tips are so incredibly stupid, unnneccessary, confusing, and a waste of everyone’s time and energy.

Just imagine... paying the price that’s advertised. How practical and convenient that would be!

The obvious solution is a law banning the soliciting of tips, and let’s require prices to include sales tax while we’re at it. Call it the “pay what’s advertised” or “fair pricing” law.

Re: Reeling from algorithm glitch, Instacart institutes $3 minimum fee for drivers

#29

Post by CodeWriter23 »

paulie_a wrote: post #22
fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too late for me, I don't tolerate this sort of bullshit. I had pizza delivered once and paid/tipped online (I have ten years in restaurants behind me, on the rare occasion I eat out I tip really well) and the delivery guy gave me a funny look when he dropped off my order. I took a look at the receipt attached to the order and the price I paid was higher plus the tip was not on the slip, I sent him a text with my…

That's why I just keep twenty in singles in my wallet, I never pay cash for things but can just hit zero on the app and give the tip in person.

Those people really appreciate the cash tips too.
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