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Applications for tenure track CS position restricted to women only

higheredjobs.com

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Re: Applications for tenure track CS position restricted to women only

#21

Post by ojbyrne »

sendos wrote: post #17
qq66 wrote: post #16

Interesting thought experiment. This seems repugnant at face value. Would it be equally repugnant to have a scholarship restricted to Computer Science majors? How about a scholarship restricted to high academic achievers? What types of "discrimination" are OK? Where is the line drawn?

It's drawn at things you can change about you. You can become a Computer Science major, and you can study hard and become a high academic achiever. But you can't become a woman if you're not. EDIT: I assume it's clear that the above means "It's drawn at things you can change about you without resorting to surgery" and "you can't become a woman if you're not, without surgery"

I think, in law, that's not actually how it works. The operative phrase is "bona fide job requirements." for example if you're a fireman, it's acceptable to require that you be physically fit to some level. If you're a CS professor, you would have a harder time justifying such a requirement. That's an attribute that you can change.

IANAL, etc.

Re: Applications for tenure track CS position restricted to women only

#22

Post by dtby »

sendos wrote: post #17
qq66 wrote: post #16

Interesting thought experiment. This seems repugnant at face value. Would it be equally repugnant to have a scholarship restricted to Computer Science majors? How about a scholarship restricted to high academic achievers? What types of "discrimination" are OK? Where is the line drawn?

It's drawn at things you can change about you. You can become a Computer Science major, and you can study hard and become a high academic achiever. But you can't become a woman if you're not. EDIT: I assume it's clear that the above means "It's drawn at things you can change about you without resorting to surgery" and "you can't become a woman if you're not, without surgery"

It's drawn at things you can change about you.

What makes this reasonable?

Re: Applications for tenure track CS position restricted to women only

#23

Post by rsheridan6 »

qq66 wrote: post #16

Interesting thought experiment. This seems repugnant at face value. Would it be equally repugnant to have a scholarship restricted to Computer Science majors? How about a scholarship restricted to high academic achievers? What types of "discrimination" are OK? Where is the line drawn?

You can't discriminate against protected groups - minorities, women, and, increasingly, gays. Anybody else is fair game.

Re: Applications for tenure track CS position restricted to women only

#24

Post by geeksam »

ruby_on_rails wrote: post #15
geeksam wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From _The Princess Bride_: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." From Wikipedia: "Sexism, a term coined in the mid-20th century, is the belief or attitude that one gender or sex is inferior to, less competent, or less valuable than the other. It can also refer to hatred of, or prejudice towards, either sex as a whole (see misogyny and misandry), or the application of stereotypes…

Discrimination is justified? At first I thought I read it wrong... wow, its sounds like you are gay/lesbian and you say that! If you believe (or anyone believes) that women are under-represented in the field, then why would you support the position of only hiring women? It doesn't solve the problem. If you believe that women are underrepresented, then address the issue, NOT THE OUTCOME. Use that money to fund CS scho…

That's an awfully bi chip on your shoulder. (Sorry, couldn't resist the pun.) My gender and orientation is irrelevant to the argument, as are yours.

I agree that scholarships for women would help, but I'm curious -- why is subsidizing students based on gender okay, but hiring professors based on gender "disgusting?"

Re: Applications for tenure track CS position restricted to women only

#25

Post by smanek »

geeksam wrote: post #24
ruby_on_rails wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discrimination is justified? At first I thought I read it wrong... wow, its sounds like you are gay/lesbian and you say that! If you believe (or anyone believes) that women are under-represented in the field, then why would you support the position of only hiring women? It doesn't solve the problem. If you believe that women are underrepresented, then address the issue, NOT THE OUTCOME. Use that money to fund CS scho…

That's an awfully bi chip on your shoulder. (Sorry, couldn't resist the pun.) My gender and orientation is irrelevant to the argument, as are yours. I agree that scholarships for women would help, but I'm curious -- why is subsidizing students based on gender okay, but hiring professors based on gender "disgusting?"

FWIW, I think subsidizing students based on gender is just as disgusting.

Re: Applications for tenure track CS position restricted to women only

#26

Post by shubber »

In a field where (at the rosiest count) 25% of the practitioners are female, and an economy where women get paid (again, optimistically) 75% of what men are, how is it that repugnant to hire one CS prof who must be a woman? If these things matter (pay equity, gender parity) don't we have to do something about it?

How many of us take direct action to, say, reduce carbon emissions? I think we ought to also be taking action to be a more inclusive group - and it's very easy when you're being welcomed in the door to recognize the ways in which other people are being turned away.

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