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Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

nytimes.com

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Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#21

Post by atom-morgan »

endisukaj wrote: post #12
apk-d wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our descendants are going to be seriously confused by our practice of limiting or taking away people's ability to earn money because they publicly used a wrong word. Or so I hope, at least.

The right to free speech protects you from being persecuted by the government. Patreon and any other private company reserve the right to choose their customers (and workers) based on what they say. This has always been the case. There are countless examples, even in the past, where companies have fired employees for saying things they shouldn't have.

The issue is Jack Conte said behavior that isn't on "Patreon the platform itself" wouldn't be policed by Patreon.

And here we are.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#22

Post by jhawk28 »

endisukaj wrote: post #12
apk-d wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our descendants are going to be seriously confused by our practice of limiting or taking away people's ability to earn money because they publicly used a wrong word. Or so I hope, at least.

The right to free speech protects you from being persecuted by the government. Patreon and any other private company reserve the right to choose their customers (and workers) based on what they say. This has always been the case. There are countless examples, even in the past, where companies have fired employees for saying things they shouldn't have.

The danger is related to the centralized power of aggregators becomes close to the power that governments have over a single part of society.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#23

Post by apk-d »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #9
apk-d wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our descendants are going to be seriously confused by our practice of limiting or taking away people's ability to earn money because they publicly used a wrong word. Or so I hope, at least.

> taking away people's ability to earn money On a single platform. Nobody's preventing Mr. Benjamin from making money; they're just not allowing him to use one specific platform. He's welcome to sign up for Hatreon, or to use a payment processor directly.

He's not welcome, Hatreon (first hearing of them now) was shut down after the payment processor suspended them.

To the people downvoting: I stand by my statement and I've got karma to burn.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#24

Post by avbor »

apk-d wrote: post #5
darkpuma wrote: post #2

The real meat of the racist speech: > "This month, the site’s moderators received a complaint about Mr. Benjamin, who had risen to fame railing against diversity and feminism during the GamerGate movement in 2014. Mr. Benjamin used the N-word and anti-gay language during an interview posted to YouTube on Feb. 7, Patreon found." I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression Benjamin used that word to insult white sup…

Our descendants are going to be seriously confused by our practice of limiting or taking away people's ability to earn money because they publicly used a wrong word. Or so I hope, at least.

The English language is pretty large. There are a good number of alternatives to using the word he did that would be safe. He didn't have to use that word, but either did because he uses it often and is comfortable with it, or purposefully thought it would be a good use there. Both of which are questionable.

I'd also argue that Patreon isn't obligated at all to help him earn money here. It's not a employee employer relationship here, and they can choose to not to continue to help a person that they deem harmful to other customers.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#25

Post by harimau777 »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #9
apk-d wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our descendants are going to be seriously confused by our practice of limiting or taking away people's ability to earn money because they publicly used a wrong word. Or so I hope, at least.

> taking away people's ability to earn money On a single platform. Nobody's preventing Mr. Benjamin from making money; they're just not allowing him to use one specific platform. He's welcome to sign up for Hatreon, or to use a payment processor directly.

I think that the potential issue is that those other options are not realistically viable. In effect private companies have become the public square. Therefore, for all practical purposes, being banned from them is the same as being banned from the public discourse.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#26

Post by cambalache »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #9
apk-d wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our descendants are going to be seriously confused by our practice of limiting or taking away people's ability to earn money because they publicly used a wrong word. Or so I hope, at least.

> taking away people's ability to earn money On a single platform. Nobody's preventing Mr. Benjamin from making money; they're just not allowing him to use one specific platform. He's welcome to sign up for Hatreon, or to use a payment processor directly.

And when the new payment company bans him, then what? And are you OK if Twitter bans all left leaning people just because of their beliefs?

I tend to favor the smallest government possible, because I think private companies tend to do a better work in many areas (not all of them) so I dont like government intervening. But when you have an almost defacto monopoly in certain areas (google, facebook, twitter) banning people who has not broken the law should be illegal, plain and simple.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#27

Post by pavel_lishin »

darkpuma wrote: post #19
StavrosK wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did he say, exactly? This sounds like a possible use-mention distinction problem to me.

Good question. I've found a transcript published by patreon: https://patreonhq.com/hate-speech-on-patreon-a9026e52c2cf?gi... It's... pretty vitriolic. I'm not totally comfortable with even quoting the redacted version, but here goes nothing: > “I just can’t be bothered with people who chose to treat me like this. It’s really annoying. Like, I — . You’re acting like a bunch of n_____s, just so you know. You act like w…

Reading this as a straight white guy, the slurs aren't as offensive as the whole underlying philosophy and line of thinking.

Although I like that the No True Scotsman fallacy leaking through the cracks.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#28

Post by ng12 »

endisukaj wrote: post #12
apk-d wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our descendants are going to be seriously confused by our practice of limiting or taking away people's ability to earn money because they publicly used a wrong word. Or so I hope, at least.

The right to free speech protects you from being persecuted by the government. Patreon and any other private company reserve the right to choose their customers (and workers) based on what they say. This has always been the case. There are countless examples, even in the past, where companies have fired employees for saying things they shouldn't have.

Free speech as a concept has been around for a lot longer than the US government.

The problem is if free speech is effectively banned from the internet due to the internet being controlled by a handful of private companies, do we still have free speech?

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#29

Post by vowelless »

Looks like this guy is from Europe. Do they have the same stigma for those words? Are we okay applying American standards to their words? That would be a slippery slope. Some nations consider speech against their sultans or their deens as hate speech. Will patreon take the side of those governments or the vast majority of those populations (who will gladly watch blasphemers get imprisoned)?

On the other hand, should they take a progressive stance on a global scale? For example, should they ban Arabs who use “abeed” too? Should they ban the quasi antisemetic vitriol spewed out by many in MENA? (Example that Kuwaiti “Instagram influencer” who ranted about her Filipino maid)

Maybe neither. Perhaps as a private company, they should do whatever they like. Let competitors fill the gaps if needed.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#30

Post by theandrewbailey »

StavrosK wrote: post #8
darkpuma wrote: post #2

The real meat of the racist speech: > "This month, the site’s moderators received a complaint about Mr. Benjamin, who had risen to fame railing against diversity and feminism during the GamerGate movement in 2014. Mr. Benjamin used the N-word and anti-gay language during an interview posted to YouTube on Feb. 7, Patreon found." I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression Benjamin used that word to insult white sup…

What did he say, exactly? This sounds like a possible use-mention distinction problem to me.

A clip was included in Sargon's first video about this incident: https://youtu.be/4ThPdCicEsg?t=238
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