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SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

reuters.com

21–30 of 69 posts

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#21
post #9

SpaceX had to use a fully expendable Falcon for this launch. What makes a GPS satellite so heavy?

Did they originally intend to use a bigger rocket? It seems unlike them to throw one away at any price.

SpaceX will happily sell you a single-use Falcon 9 (or Falcon Heavy) if you need the mass for your launch. Of course, one should expect to pay for the privilege.

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#23
post #6

no employee protests against DOD projects :)

yeh cause doing DOD projects from an American Company to increase GPS is a good thing

Not for those on the receiving end of JDAMs

SpaceX is taking defense money to launch satellites that are primarily for military use in guiding platforms that deliver things to lethal terminal effect. That's just as martial as Raytheon building the Tomahawk guidance module.

Thought experiment: would SpaceX take Russian money to launch GLONASS birds? I'd wager not because it would be 'immoral'.

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#24
post #4

How is an upgraded GPS satellite a “national security” mission? Yes, I understand that precise and reliable global navigation is essential to fighting wars and guided weapons, but such uses pale in comparison to the billions of people who rely on GPS every day to do non-war, non-USA stuff. It is neither national nor security. Or do they just mean “in the role of defense contractor”?

GPS is lofted and maintained by the DoD. It's primary purpose is military. It would not exist as a free service without DoD's investment. Other satellite constellations with far fewer sats cost considerable amounts of money to use, and few of our modern applications for GPS would be very appealing at $xxx a month. Civillian GPS is a generous charity from US taxpayers to the rest of the world

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#25
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inclination changes are very "expensive" in terms of delta-V: https://www.google.com/search?q=plane+change+delta+v&ie=utf-...

Interesting. It makes sense then to launch such satellites closer to poles. That explains why there are plans in Norway to build a space launching site at around 70 latitude near Tromsø.

I think it is mostly about the path the rocket is allowed to travel during launch. In the US, for equatorial orbits, one launches from Cape Kennedy to the east, and for polar from Vandenburg to the south. Maybe off angle launches aren't allowed so a lot of correction is needed after the satellite reaches orbit to get to an inclined orbit? I am not an orbital mechanics specialist or space launch planner. Corrective comments are encouraged.

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#26
post #19
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still SpaceX routinely recovers the first stage after launching geostationary communication satellites. I thought GPS should be lighter as they are closer to Earth and needs to send much less information in their signal, so the power requirements and size of Solar panels should be lower.

This sattelite was some 8000kgs, vs. 4000-ish kgs for the previous-generation GPS satellites, if I remember correctly.

Any idea why their weight increased so much?

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeh cause doing DOD projects from an American Company to increase GPS is a good thing

Not for those on the receiving end of JDAMs SpaceX is taking defense money to launch satellites that are primarily for military use in guiding platforms that deliver things to lethal terminal effect. That's just as martial as Raytheon building the Tomahawk guidance module. Thought experiment: would SpaceX take Russian money to launch GLONASS birds? I'd wager not because it would be 'immoral'.

So the signals from these GPS satellites are not available for public use? Because if they are then I would say it is hard to really say what is the primary use. The value of GPS for civilian use in the US economy is really high at this point.

Sort of like the US interstate highway system. Military use got the budget to build it, secondary use ends up being more important.

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#28
post #24
post #4

How is an upgraded GPS satellite a “national security” mission? Yes, I understand that precise and reliable global navigation is essential to fighting wars and guided weapons, but such uses pale in comparison to the billions of people who rely on GPS every day to do non-war, non-USA stuff. It is neither national nor security. Or do they just mean “in the role of defense contractor”?

GPS is lofted and maintained by the DoD. It's primary purpose is military. It would not exist as a free service without DoD's investment. Other satellite constellations with far fewer sats cost considerable amounts of money to use, and few of our modern applications for GPS would be very appealing at $xxx a month. Civillian GPS is a generous charity from US taxpayers to the rest of the world

No, its primary purpose is civilian. Its original and occasional purpose is military, sure, but as I mentioned, it is used far more widely now, by several orders of magnitude. Its military applications are so eclipsed now by non-war-related uses that the military origins are practically irrelevant.

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#29
post #25
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. It makes sense then to launch such satellites closer to poles. That explains why there are plans in Norway to build a space launching site at around 70 latitude near Tromsø.

I think it is mostly about the path the rocket is allowed to travel during launch. In the US, for equatorial orbits, one launches from Cape Kennedy to the east, and for polar from Vandenburg to the south. Maybe off angle launches aren't allowed so a lot of correction is needed after the satellite reaches orbit to get to an inclined orbit? I am not an orbital mechanics specialist or space launch planner. Corrective co…

Vandenberg is mostly used for polar orbit launches because it's a path over the ocean. Not possible to launch eastbound from there because first stages would fall on populated areas. This is also the reason why the Israeli space program launches into rare retrograde orbits (opposite direction of earth's rotation), westbound over the ocean, because they don't want to drop 1st stages on their eastern neighbours.

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeh cause doing DOD projects from an American Company to increase GPS is a good thing

Not for those on the receiving end of JDAMs SpaceX is taking defense money to launch satellites that are primarily for military use in guiding platforms that deliver things to lethal terminal effect. That's just as martial as Raytheon building the Tomahawk guidance module. Thought experiment: would SpaceX take Russian money to launch GLONASS birds? I'd wager not because it would be 'immoral'.

Beneficial civilian use of GPS is orders of magnitude more common than military uses. Military systems also never require GPS, because you can’t count on the enemy not to jam the signal or shoot down the satellites, so there are always alternate navigation methods. For example, JDAMs also use inertial navigation.

I would not want to work on a weapons system but I’d have no problem working on something like GPS.

I see no evidence for the conclusion to your thought experiment. You can’t just make up a conclusion to support your argument, it needs to actually be based on something.

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