If your really serious about developing stuff what will end up running on a Linux server, I think you should really be using Linux on the development machine. I know that is not always practical, but more people should do it. No one would dream of writing a Mac app on Windows, and I don't see why Linux should be any different.
Why You Should Be Using Virtualisation In Your Development Environment
21–30 of 44 posts
Re: Why You Should Be Using Virtualisation In Your Development Environment
#22I really wish you could virtualize OS X. I would love to build a beefy Linux box as a base machine and virtualize OS X and Windows.
It's my understanding you can do it, but it's a bit hacky, right?
Re: Why You Should Be Using Virtualisation In Your Development Environment
#23Note that its pretty much a must if you plan to have a MongoDB server as part of your dev environment on your home box - Mongo by design eats all the RAM it can find to map files to, and if you have Apache, Solr and MySQL running on the same box, things can get ugly :)
If all you want to do is limit memory usage, process control groups can do that with less overhead than a VM.
kernel/Documentation/cgroups/memory.txt circa line 255
Re: Why You Should Be Using Virtualisation In Your Development Environment
#24I just touched Test and test on mac and I see both of them just fine.
Re: Why You Should Be Using Virtualisation In Your Development Environment
#25If your really serious about developing stuff what will end up running on a Linux server, I think you should really be using Linux on the development machine. I know that is not always practical, but more people should do it. No one would dream of writing a Mac app on Windows, and I don't see why Linux should be any different.
If you're targeting a specific platform, it can make sense to use a virtual machine instead of installing that platform on your development machine. As far as code is concerned, it doesn't care that you're running it on a Linux VM inside a Windows dev machine rather than directly on a Linux dev machine.
That being said, if you're trying to target Mac or Windows, it's generally a good idea to use that specific platform's tools. It's reasonable to develop Windows and Mac apps on Linux but it may not be the best environment to do so. It's really up to you as a developer to determine the best toolchain and processes based on what you're trying to accomplish.
Re: Why You Should Be Using Virtualisation In Your Development Environment
#26I'm assuming Mitchell hasn't seen this yet, but I'm sure I speak for both of us when I say thank you for including Vagrant in your post.
I would like to point out a few things.
1. Another thing to set up.
Streamlining project setup is one of Vagrant's primary goals. Instead of putting someone, who potentially has no background with the app, through a 20 step process installing all the application dependencies you can simply tell them to run a few commands.
2. It's a "Ruby tool".
While I don't think your intention was to pigeon hole it, Vagrant is really meant for any development environment/language/setup. Its just unfortunate that the only supported provisioning tool uses Ruby for its DSL (are there similar tools in other languages?)
(NOTE: its been a while since I contributed meaningfully to the project)
Re: Why You Should Be Using Virtualisation In Your Development Environment
#27Not strictly in the spirit of the post, but I use a nice VM setup I thoroughly recommend: - Host: OSX (2.4GHz i5, 8GB ram) - Guest1: Ubuntu 10.10 (1.5GB ram allocated; acts as a LAMP server, available to Host and other Guests) - Guest2: WinXP (1.5GB ram allocated - I use it for IE and for Xara) This config eats RAM, but affords so many advantages: 1/ Makes my LAMP server portable. Can set up on new computer in no tim…
PS, if anyone knows a solution to the file access speed issue (not just the filesystem of the guest, but also what ever you share with it from the host) please tell me. Parallels, VMWare Fusion and VirtualBox all have this issue and it drives me mad sometimes!
Vagrant automates the shared folders through nfs to work around VirtualBox's abysmal performance.
Re: Why You Should Be Using Virtualisation In Your Development Environment
#28Not strictly in the spirit of the post, but I use a nice VM setup I thoroughly recommend: - Host: OSX (2.4GHz i5, 8GB ram) - Guest1: Ubuntu 10.10 (1.5GB ram allocated; acts as a LAMP server, available to Host and other Guests) - Guest2: WinXP (1.5GB ram allocated - I use it for IE and for Xara) This config eats RAM, but affords so many advantages: 1/ Makes my LAMP server portable. Can set up on new computer in no tim…
I use a similar setup.
- Base: OSX (3.06 GHz Core 2 Duo, 8 GB RAM, 500 GB HDD)
- Guest 1: Windows 7 3 GB RAM, for VS 2010, for Silverlight development
- Guest 2: Win XP 512 MB RAM - for testing with IE6
- Guest 3: Ubuntu 9.04 (need to update)
This works really well, and Win 7 is snappy and VS 2010 works flawlessly. On OSX I always have Chrome, AntiRSI, Things, TextMate, Terminal, NetNewsWire and iTunes open.
A big advantage is that I can fearlessly install things on Windows, I simply back up the VM before any installs/updates.
This config does work pretty well, except 8GB RAM does fall short sometimes. In my experience, VM performance takes a nose dive the moment OSX starts swapping, this is something I watch and now have to re-boot almost everyday (gone are the month long sessions).
Re: Why You Should Be Using Virtualisation In Your Development Environment
#29I just touched Test and test on mac and I see both of them just fine.
On what filesystem?
Certainly not the default HFS+, which is is case-insensitive but case-preserving.
Re: Why You Should Be Using Virtualisation In Your Development Environment
#30I'm assuming Mitchell hasn't seen this yet, but I'm sure I speak for both of us when I say thank you for including Vagrant in your post. I would like to point out a few things. 1. Another thing to set up. Streamlining project setup is one of Vagrant's primary goals. Instead of putting someone, who potentially has no background with the app, through a 20 step process installing all the application dependencies you can…
I did finally see this entry. It was a great read and I agree completely with it. Note that I posted my comment on the blog directly: http://morethanseven.net/2010/11/04/Why-you-should-be-using-...
Since clicking on that just to read my comment can be annoying, I've copied it below as well:
=========================================================
Yes! Yes Yes Yes! Virtualization for development is extremely important and I'm glad you wrote this. Also, thanks for the hat tip to Vagrant, I appreciate it. I've given a few talks on this and it always amazes me how many people are so comfortable with the status quo of developing on their own machines with apache/mysql/etc installed directly on their machines. Its a disaster waiting to happen.
I want to point out to the many people using VMWare out there: VMWare Fusion is great, yes, I won't argue. Their shared folders are better, again I agree. But Vagrant does make use of NFS which is faster than even VMWare Fusion's shared folders in order to get around VirtualBox's terrible performance.
And just because I have things to say, here are a few of my own remarks against the arguments against virtualization of development:
* Speed - Given enough RAM (which for a standard web application, shouldn't be any more than 512 MB to 1 GB for the VM instance), the speed difference is noticeable but not detrimental to your productivity. For regular web requests you won't notice any speed difference. For CPU intensive background tasks, you'll probably see a 1.5x slowdown. Again, unless you're running 5 hour tasks during development, it shouldn't be a big deal, and the benefits outweigh these issues, in my opinion.
* Lower level than you're used to - Then get your friendly sysadmin to setup a base image to use for your site. A modern sysadmin has many scripts made to automate the setup of the environment for production. There is no reason these scripts can't be used to setup your development as well. Use it! Stay in your happy place and just boot up a VM and code! (Although its my opinion every developer should take the time to learn their software stack top to bottom)
* Something else to setup - Once. You only need to learn it once, and its repeatable and dependable. I would argue that setting up a new software stack every time a dependency changes on your web app is far more than one more "something else to setup."
* Developer workstations should be personal - Right! I agree 100%. So stop installing server crap on your personal computers. Keep your Twitter clients away from your web servers. Use a VM and keep your workstation personal.
Thanks again, Mitchell